TeraByte Unlimited

Hello,
After studying the IFD CUI v2.88 manual as deep as my knowledge permits, I still didn't find the options to select so I can be confident with the back-ups I want to do... So I decided to make a post to the forums! Let me describe my case:
I have an old laptop with a FRESH install of Windows XP on a 120GB partition of a 320GB hard disk (28-bit LBA BIOS); the rest of the drive is unpartitioned (unallocated space).
What I want is to backup (full) this (system) partition, but by putting the disk temporarily to my desktop to do this, because the laptop only has a slow USB 1.1 and a not very well working CD-RW (not DVD-RW).

The backup (image) of this partition must be done in a way to be able to serve 2 future options: 1st to be able to restore in the same 120GB partition of the 320GB disk and 2nd to be able to restore in another 80GB disk I have around which will be prepared as one primary 80GB partition.

What I understand is that I have the combination of 2 "problems": 1st the case where both the backup and the restore process will take place in another machine (my desktop) and 2nd the case of restoring to another and especially smaller hard disk.

To overcome the 2nd case and be on the safe side as well, I understood that I need to make a backup of the partition as it is (preserving the original - and also serving the need to restore in the same hard disk) and then make a second backup with the compact option (since it is a fresh install it will work; I hope it can "compact" to less than 80GB - would 60-70GB be enough?).

About the 1st case i.e. the fact that all IFD operations will take place in my desktop computer, these are my thoughts for the options below, when making the IFD v2.88 boot disk:

1. "Disable Align MBR for BIOS Auto Mode" (not sure; all partitions were / will be prepared before restore process...)
2. check "Assume same target system" (right?)
3. check "Use Windows 9x MBR" (since all partitions were made and will be made by Partition Magic v8.01 diskettes - wouldn't that preserve IFD make any alternations to an old-type MBR?)
4. check "Disable Automatic Scaling Restrictions" (wouldn't that help me later expand the 60-70GB partition image to the new disk's 80GB one? - or it doesn't make any difference with partition and is only for disks)
5. check "Disable Automatic Boot Partition Updates" (isn't it better not IFD alter anything more since in any case there always be one partition?)
6. check "Disable Automatic Restore Drive Search" (I prefer to have control myself - does it matter?)
7. check "Disable Validate Geometry Before Use" (isn't better to prevent IFD alter anything to Geometry to align it to known standards? - since original system (notebook) already works with that geometry)

During the Restore partition process:

8. "Set Active": since in both cases of restoring either to the original 120GB or the new 80GB partitions there will be no other partitions to the disks, I guess it doesn't matter if I won't check this option?
9. "Update BOOT.INI": well, when restoring to the original 120GB, it shouldn't be checked. To the new 80GB? It will be in the same location on the disk, i.e. c:\ so maybe shouldn't be checked either, right?
10. uncheck "Update Boot Partition" even for the case of the 80GB disk where the target (80GB) disk is different from the original (120GB) hard disk, since in both disks there is/will be only one partition (boot&system), OK?
11. "Write Standard MBR Code": in case I restore to the original 120GB partition - no, in case of the new 80GB disk? If it will previously be formatted as a primary partition of 80GB? Still no?
12. "Restore Disk Signature": I think it COULD be checked for restoring to the original 120GB drive and SHOULD be checked for restoring to the new 80GB. Are both my conclusions right?
13. "Restore First Track": this puzzles me a lot: I can understand it doesn't need to be checked when restoring to the original 120GB. But to the new 80GB? Is it too powerful command to use or it is needed?
14. "Move to Original MBR Entry": I think it would be good to Windows as well (not only to Linux) as manual mentions... Am I wrong? (of course it should only be applied with my 80GB case?)
15. "Assume Original HD": I assume this should be check in both my cases since alhough in my desktop the notebook's drive (either the original 120GB or the new 80GB - although NOT exactly the "Original HD") may get another number, when finally be put back in the notebook it MUST have the original drive number so the "applicable drive references residing within the restored partitions" should NOT "be updated to reflect the new hard drive number"! Am I right of checking this option too or maybe this option is handdled anyway by the "Assume same target system" in the beginning?
16. "Change Volume SN": now I understand this should NOT be checked in any case. I mean since the 120GB or the 80GB will never be put together in either in my desktop or my notebook, the volums sn should not be changed. Wouldn't the change to volume sn give XP problems and need to validate again? I NEED to avoid that in the future: who knows when Microsoft will stop validating XP...
17. "First Track Sectors": well how many things could be hidden in those sectors... Is "Restore First Track" more powerfull, so I needn't check this? Is "Restore First Track" too powerful to select and so I should select only "First Track Sectors" especially to the new 80GB? In case only the less powerfull "First Track Sectors" is needed, how many sectors should I put? My main worry is for when restoring to the new 80GB drive I need IFD to set it up as much the same as the original 120GB, thus preventing XP to see any differencies and start asking for validations again...
18 AND LAST: "Resize Partition": OK, not an option for restoring to the original 120GB partition, but could it be for the new 80GB? As I set before restoring to the smaller 80GB, I will make a backup with "Compact" option of about 60-70GB just to be on the safe size. Is this the option I could check to expand this 60-70GB to an 80GB partition, thus taking advantage of the full 80 GB of the new hard disk? Or a seperate partitioning program is needed for expanding the 60-70GB partition after restrored to 80GB?

How so many questions, how so many things puzzle me, how so many options for your powerfull IFD. Sometimes I think I'm maybe worrying too much, all these options may be there for special and weird cases and not for me. Then I'm thinking that maybe the prepare of a backup of the notebook's system XP partition to be able to BOTH restore to the original hard disk AND to a new smaller hard disk with the combination of the fact that the whole backup - restore process have to take place in my desktop PC AND my need to "fool" Windows XP that nothing has happened (in the case of the smaller hard disk of course) is not just an every day case. Maybe it IS a complicated case where some of the more advanced IFD options should come into play...

What can I say, I would be very grateful even with a YES or NO for my 18 questions. I wouldn't want any further explanations although I'm eager to deeper understand; I'm not asking for lessons, just to get my job done at this point since all us XP users are trying to backup a fully M$ updated installation of Windows, before 8 April...

Thank you all (who will even try to read my long post) and those who will also answer in advance..

geosiou wrote:
> To overcome the 2nd case and be on the safe side as well, I understood that
> I need to make a backup of the partition as it is (preserving the original
> - and also serving the need to restore in the same hard disk) and then make
> a second backup with the compact option (since it is a fresh install it
> will work; I hope it can "compact" to less than 80GB - would
> 60-70GB be enough?).
A clean XP install doesn't take up much space (e.g. under 10GB). There shouldn't be any problem compacting it under 80GB. Note that the compacted backup can work for both your restore scenarios.

> About the 1st case i.e. the fact that all IFD operations will take place in
> my desktop computer, these are my thoughts for the options below, when
> making the IFD v2.88 boot disk:
I generally recommend using the default settings when creating the boot media. However, if you're creating the boot media for a specific purpose, then changing default/global settings can make sense. Since the settings can be change once the program has booted it's easy to try them (if necessary) without creating the media with them set. This way, if you use your boot media for "normal" backups/restores on other systems you don't end up with something not working because of a global setting being non-default (e.g. you forget to change it back).

> 2. check "Assume same target system" (right?)
You would want to use this option when restoring.

> 3. check "Use Windows 9x MBR" (since all partitions were made and
> will be made by Partition Magic v8.01 diskettes - wouldn't that preserve
> IFD make any alternations to an old-type MBR?)
IFD would use the older MBR code if it needs to be written. XP should boot okay with the newer code also.

> 4. check "Disable Automatic Scaling Restrictions" (wouldn't that
> help me later expand the 60-70GB partition image to the new disk's 80GB
> one? - or it doesn't make any difference with partition and is only for
> disks)
This wouldn't affect your restore. You would only be restoring the one partition and any restrictions wouldn't apply to it due to its size.

> 5. check "Disable Automatic Boot Partition Updates" (isn't it
> better not IFD alter anything more since in any case there always be one
> partition?)
Leave this enabled. There are multiple things that can need fixed up to enable booting.

> 6. check "Disable Automatic Restore Drive Search" (I prefer to
> have control myself - does it matter?)
This only affects automatic restores. If you perform a normal restore you'll be selecting the destination drive.

> 7. check "Disable Validate Geometry Before Use" (isn't better to
> prevent IFD alter anything to Geometry to align it to known standards? -
> since original system (notebook) already works with that geometry)
There shouldn't be any problem leaving the validate option enabled.

> During the Restore partition process:
>
> 8. "Set Active": since in both cases of restoring either to the
> original 120GB or the new 80GB partitions there will be no other partitions
> to the disks, I guess it doesn't matter if I won't check this option?
The partition is the booting partition and must be set active. Enable this option.

> 9. "Update BOOT.INI": well, when restoring to the original 120GB,
> it shouldn't be checked. To the new 80GB? It will be in the same location
> on the disk, i.e. c:\ so maybe shouldn't be checked either, right?
If you leave the "Automatic Boot Partition Updates" option enabled, this option will not be available during the restore if restoring an entire drive image. Normally, it's best to leave enabled so any necessary updates can be applied. When restoring just the XP partition, it wouldn't hurt to have it enabled -- it will be updated only if it needs it.

> 10. uncheck "Update Boot Partition" even for the case of the 80GB
> disk where the target (80GB) disk is different from the original (120GB)
> hard disk, since in both disks there is/will be only one partition
> (boot&system), OK?
If enabled, updates will only be made if necessary for it to boot properly.

> 11. "Write Standard MBR Code": in case I restore to the original
> 120GB partition - no, in case of the new 80GB disk? If it will previously
> be formatted as a primary partition of 80GB? Still no?
The drive needs the MBR boot code on it. If it exists already and is valid then it's not necessary to write it. In your case, if you restore an entire drive image the MBR code will be written as saved (as the original). If you restore just the XP partition you'd probably want to enable this in case the code on the drive is missing or incorrect for XP.

> 12. "Restore Disk Signature": I think it COULD be checked for
> restoring to the original 120GB drive and SHOULD be checked for restoring
> to the new 80GB. Are both my conclusions right?
Usually, you'll want to keep the disk signature. Enabled is fine.

> 13. "Restore First Track": this puzzles me a lot: I can
> understand it doesn't need to be checked when restoring to the original
> 120GB. But to the new 80GB? Is it too powerful command to use or it is
> needed?
It's not needed here.

> 14. "Move to Original MBR Entry": I think it would be good to
> Windows as well (not only to Linux) as manual mentions... Am I wrong? (of
> course it should only be applied with my 80GB case?)
Shouldn't be necessary, but shouldn't hurt either. Most likely, the single partition is in the first slot and would stay there. Note that this option only applies if restoring just the partition (when restoring an entire drive image the partition will be in its original location).

> 15. "Assume Original HD": I assume this should be check in both
> my cases since alhough in my desktop the notebook's drive (either the
> original 120GB or the new 80GB - although NOT exactly the "Original
> HD") may get another number, when finally be put back in the notebook
> it MUST have the original drive number so the "applicable drive
> references residing within the restored partitions" should NOT
> "be updated to reflect the new hard drive number"! Am I right of
> checking this option too or maybe this option is handdled anyway by the
> "Assume same target system" in the beginning?
You shouldn't need to use this option.

> 16. "Change Volume SN": now I understand this should NOT be
> checked in any case. I mean since the 120GB or the 80GB will never be put
> together in either in my desktop or my notebook, the volums sn should not
> be changed. Wouldn't the change to volume sn give XP problems and need to
> validate again? I NEED to avoid that in the future: who knows when
> Microsoft will stop validating XP...
You shouldn't need to use this option.

> 17. "First Track Sectors": well how many things could be hidden
> in those sectors... Is "Restore First Track" more powerfull, so I
> needn't check this? Is "Restore First Track" too powerful to
> select and so I should select only "First Track Sectors"
> especially to the new 80GB? In case only the less powerfull "First
> Track Sectors" is needed, how many sectors should I put? My main worry
> is for when restoring to the new 80GB drive I need IFD to set it up as much
> the same as the original 120GB, thus preventing XP to see any differencies
> and start asking for validations again...
Leave on AUTO. In any case, you're not restoring the first track so this value doesn't apply.

> 18 AND LAST: "Resize Partition": OK, not an option for restoring
> to the original 120GB partition, but could it be for the new 80GB? As I set
> before restoring to the smaller 80GB, I will make a backup with
> "Compact" option of about 60-70GB just to be on the safe size. Is
> this the option I could check to expand this 60-70GB to an 80GB partition,
> thus taking advantage of the full 80 GB of the new hard disk? Or a seperate
> partitioning program is needed for expanding the 60-70GB partition after
> restrored to 80GB?
When restoring just the partition you would specify the new size here (use the maximum value to use all the space). When restoring an entire drive image just select the "Scale to Fit" option to have it automatically expand.

> How so many questions, how so many things puzzle me, how so many options
> for your powerfull IFD. Sometimes I think I'm maybe worrying too much, all
> these options may be there for special and weird cases and not for me. Then
> I'm thinking that maybe the prepare of a backup of the notebook's system XP
> partition to be able to BOTH restore to the original hard disk AND to a new
> smaller hard disk with the combination of the fact that the whole backup -
> restore process have to take place in my desktop PC AND my need to
> "fool" Windows XP that nothing has happened (in the case of the
> smaller hard disk of course) is not just an every day case. Maybe it IS a
> complicated case where some of the more advanced IFD options should come
> into play...
To keep it simple, what I would do is create the boot media using default values. Back up the entire disk (check the box for the drive). Before restoring, enable the "Assume Same Target System" global option. Then select the entire disk (check the box for the drive). In restore options, enable "Scale to Fit" ("Scale to Fit" not needed when restoring back to the original drive).

Wowww!!! Have never thought anyone would answer to a post with 18 questions, anyone who would answer one by one exaclty, anyone who would put himself in my different cases with my backup/restore situations logic!!! Thank you Terabyte Unlimited for your excellent support and a special, personal thank to Paul Purviance who, with his understandable writing made my life easier!
Despite the extendable answer, it was not only a "do that" situation, but more of an explain of the inner workings of IFD.

Can you believe I had never thought that you can just backup the entire drive, and then restore either the entire drive from that backup or restore just the system partition (or just any othter partition)?

Can you believe I thought that in order to later restore an entire drive you should have an image of an entire backuped drive and in order to later restore a partition you should have an image of that specific partition backed-up?

Yes, I could have done the try-and-error solution. But multiply the above (entire drive - partition backup) to the fact that I would have to prepare about 5-6 boot disks to cover the possible setup options, it means more than 10 tries (and a lot of GB of space...). Up to here, and not getting to the restore proccess with its plenty of options as well, you are so discouraged that you end up looking at the screen and do nothing!

Of course it is clear that I had never understand that those options actually take place at the restore proccess... Your suggestions not only made things so clear but encouraged me to start my both computers backups (I also want to fresh install XP & Office in my desktop later, with all the updates, before 8 April...).

For me the only it was needed to get started with a default boot disk, and an entire drive backup. I also did a compacted backup. That's it! In only 30' (I always select both "Validates") I was ready to start experiments: restoring entire drives, partition(s), restoring options... Whatever I like. But not go back to the beginning, create a different boot disk, make more backups etc...

Of course, here come into play Paul's suggestions on all the restore options for both my situations which not only made me not to have to experiment AT ALL, but also helped me to better understand those options -THANK YOU AGAIN!

Alas, I have to blame someone for all the before-restore-options misunderstandings: it's the IFD manual! I've said it before. It is a bad written manual. It is unforgivable not letting the customer realize that an entire disk backup is the best thing to start with, BECAUSE YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU LIKE WITH IT; not only restore it as a disk backup again!

It is unforgivable to give global settings during setup without telling THIS: "I generally recommend using the default settings when creating the boot media. However, if you're creating the boot media for a specific purpose, then changing default/global settings can make sense. Since the settings can be change once the program has booted it's easy to try them (if necessary) without creating the media with them set. This way, if you use your boot media for "normal" backups/restores on other systems you don't end up with something not working because of a global setting being non-default (e.g. you forget to change it back)." IS IT SO DIFFICULT? PAUL DID SAY IT (it's his words...). Write it in the manual, NOW!. That is: what is recommended, why it is recommended, why it is not a problem since you still don't lose advance options with the recommendation.

As far as the restore options: not just a brief explanation of what each do. The program is very technical; it is totally wrong to give so advanced options and try to give explanations in "plain English". Do give technical answers! Don't just say "When restoring an image of a partition, you might need to use the Update BOOT.INI, Set Active, and Write Standard MBR Code (or Restore First Track)". Might is wrong here. Use all of them, half of them? Which of them anyway? In fact if you explain with paradigms we wouldn't have questions!

Also it is a very bad habbit to use "Disable Automatic Boot Partition Updates" in global options which when checked DISABLES them and "Automatic Boot Partition Updates" in restore options which when checked ENABLES them. Also, to use "Use Windows 9x MBR" which when checked uses OLD boot code and then "Use New Windows MBR" which when checked uses NEW boot code. Also to use "Use Source Host Geometry" in global options and then "Use Original Geometry" override for the same thing. Please do not use two different definitions for the same thing in two different places... In fact the term "Original" seems to be totally wrong in the common sense; the way my mind explains it, is the geometry of the original (THE ONE THE BACKUP CAME FROM) drive.

Another bad example copied from the manual: "'Disable Align MBR for BIOS Auto Mode' - This option is enabled by default to prevent problems with unaligned partitions on systems with their BIOS using Auto Mode. Many newer systems use auto mode by default, and some even don't have an option to turn it off". OK up to now... "Check the box if you want to disable this option. This is equivalent to enabling the individual overrides 'Align MBR Ending HS' and 'Align MBR HS when Truncated'. However, you can disable this option by checking the box". Now WHICH is "equivalent to enabling..."? As you write it, it is the checking of the "Disable Align MBR for BIOS Auto Mode". Which means: The disabling of "Align MBR for BIOS Auto Mode" is equivalent to the enabling of the individual overrides 'Align MBR Ending HS' and 'Align MBR HS when Truncated'. Is it that or the other way around?

Even the way options are given is not nice: Don't give us "Assume Same Target System", even if it is easier to understand, and then tell us "the equivalents are...". It is better to give options:
"Use backed-up MBR" (and explain when it should be used - your PC-A/PC-B paradigm)
"Use host MBR" (and explain when it should be used - I understand that if you restore a system disk in the same computer it was created i.e. PC-A = PC-B, both options are equally valid, so "Assume Same Target System" can be used as well. When would someone need "Use host MBR", that is take another computer's (PC-A) installation and restore it for use in PC-B? Wouldn't it not work an installation from different hardware, even if the MBR geometry is valid for the new computer (PC-B)??)

In fact a detailed description of the MBR is a must in your manual. It would explain a lot of things. Where's the boot code, the partition table, the disk volume ID (which when changed makes XP asking for revalidation), what parts of the MBR get overwritten with partition restore, which should be overwritten for specific OSes, which parts "Restore First Track" overwrites", what are the benefits etc...

I'm sorry for the long post (again), but I want to make you considering of a re-writing of your manual. Have a look to Power Quest's old Partition Magic documentation. About MBR's, about OSes limitations, problems, MBR etc... Give it a try... Your program is the best imaging program. Your support? I'm not saying again; this post proves it all. Please write a manual that IFD/IFL/IFW (and we users who try to deeper understand and chose it versus other programs out there) deserves!

Thank you for reading again.

P.S.: A nice simple addition to the manual would be to write to every page in the right and in vertical orientation the chapter we are reading since many options get repeated between various functions but obviously with some differencies and after a while of browsing, you lose track and can't understand if you are reading the details of i.e. partition restore, disk restore, validate or maybe copy not to mention full or differential. I know this is not your fault, it's because it is more difficult to read from screen than from paper. In the past I had printed the manual but it is 180 pages to print it again...