W8 corruption revisited

[borate]

After installing W8 RTM I tested the corruption issue addressed earlier here (** UPDATE: ** NTFS corruption" - about four pages back) and in TB's IFW sticky. FAST START UP is not enabled.
IFW is installed on two drives, one loaded with W7 and the other with W8.

Prior to imaging the integrity of both drives was verified: "not dirty." When W8 is imaged from the W8 drive then restored via the W7 drive, it still corrupts the NTFS on the W8 partition.
If W8 is imaged from the W7 drive and then restored, all is well. In the past, partitions on both drives occasionally became corrupt - a real mess. Not in several tests today.
Win 7, on the other hand, restores without corruption even if imaged from within its own drive.

No big deal here. As a long-term IFW user and supporter, I am aware of this group and workarounds. While not fully comprehending the technicalities, I understand that the problem stems from changes in W8 made by Microsoft.

But I voice a concern that new buyers, running W8, will see the claim that IFW can image while its partition is in use and then, upon restore, be unhappily surprised...
and not know about CHKDSK, which usually restores the file system to a usable state yet may leave some files hosed. Perhaps that claim should no longer be made until the situation can be resolved.

[TeraByte Support]

I've personally done that several times restoring using ifw via w7, ifl,
ifd, etc.. etc.. and never a problem. Also there is already quite a decent
size base using w8 and ifw and not reporting any issues.

the corruption issue via hibernation (fast startup) has to do with booting
between windows version when one hibernates and shares partition with the
other windows version, in that case coming out of hibernation, that windows
version doesn't remount the partitions and instead assumes nothing has
changed on any of the partitions (a flawed design). The recommended
solution is to not use hibernation (then no problems), but you must have
hibernation, could use BootIt and BootNow with the /hibernate option to help
prevent issues (at least) when not introducing other boot media to the mix.



"borate" wrote in message news:3644@public.image...

After installing W8 RTM I tested the corruption issue addressed earlier here
(** UPDATE: ** NTFS corruption" - about four pages back) and in TB's IFW
sticky. FAST START UP is not enabled.
IFW is installed on two drives, one loaded with W7 and the other with W8.

Prior to imaging the integrity of both drives was verified: "not dirty."
When W8 is imaged from the W8 drive then restored via the W7 drive, it still
corrupts the NTFS on the W8 partition.
If W8 is imaged from the W7 drive and then restored, all is well. In the
past, partitions on both drives occasionally became corrupt - a real mess.
Not in several tests today.
Win 7, on the other hand, restores without corruption even if imaged from
within its own drive.

No big deal here. As a long-term IFW user and supporter, I am aware of this
group and workarounds. While not fully comprehending the technicalities, I
understand that the problem stems from changes in W8 made by Microsoft.

But I voice a concern that new buyers, running W8, will see the claim that
IFW can image while its partition is in use and then, upon restore, be
unhappily surprised...
and not know about CHKDSK, which usually restores the file system to a
usable state yet may leave some files hosed. Perhaps that claim should no
longer be made until the situation can be resolved.

[borate]

Humor my ignorance. I don't use HIBERNATE or HYBRID BOOT or FAST START UP in Windows 8. I do use hybrid boot on 7, but that program is on a totally separate drive. SATA for W8; SSD for W7.
Imaging from within 8 appears normal.
Upon restoration, at the very end of the process, the phrase "completed restore" is shown in the IFW window for _about five seconds_, followed by "the restore has completed."

That's a sure sign that the W8 NTFS is "dirty." Happens every time. Normally the words "completed restore" flash only momentarily prior to the final "has completed" message.
As mentioned earlier, if the image of W8 is created in W7, restore is seemless. (The most recent failed test was written to/from a USB drive, using 8 to image and 7 to restore.)


TeraByte Support wrote:
> I've personally done that several times restoring using ifw via w7, ifl,
> ifd, etc.. etc.. and never a problem. Also there is already quite a decent
> size base using w8 and ifw and not reporting any issues.
>
> The corruption issue via hibernation (fast startup) has to do with booting
> between windows versions when one hibernates and shares partition with the
> other windows version, in that case coming out of hibernation, that windows
> version doesn't remount the partitions and instead assumes nothing has
> changed on any of the partitions (a flawed design).

> The recommended solution is to not use hibernation (then no problems),
> but you must have hibernation, could use BootIt and BootNow with the
> /hibernate option to help prevent issues (at least) when not introducing
> other boot media to the mix.

[Ed Smith]

If you use sleep instead of hibernation, do you still have the same problems
?
I use hibernation and when I used the win8 preview on a partition on the
same hard drive that I have win7 and I had the problem of corruption.
Win7 I used hibernation.

I don't have win8 preview installed now because of that.
I haven't installed the RTM yet of win8 because I am not sure about the
corruption problem and don't want to have it again.
I haven't yet downloaded the win8 yet either because I am still trying to
find out it will be OEM or full retail.

Thanks,
Ed.

"TeraByte Support" wrote in message news:3648@public.image...

I've personally done that several times restoring using ifw via w7, ifl,
ifd, etc.. etc.. and never a problem. Also there is already quite a decent
size base using w8 and ifw and not reporting any issues.

the corruption issue via hibernation (fast startup) has to do with booting
between windows version when one hibernates and shares partition with the
other windows version, in that case coming out of hibernation, that windows
version doesn't remount the partitions and instead assumes nothing has
changed on any of the partitions (a flawed design). The recommended
solution is to not use hibernation (then no problems), but you must have
hibernation, could use BootIt and BootNow with the /hibernate option to help
prevent issues (at least) when not introducing other boot media to the mix.



"borate" wrote in message news:3644@public.image...

After installing W8 RTM I tested the corruption issue addressed earlier here
(** UPDATE: ** NTFS corruption" - about four pages back) and in TB's IFW
sticky. FAST START UP is not enabled.
IFW is installed on two drives, one loaded with W7 and the other with W8.

Prior to imaging the integrity of both drives was verified: "not dirty."
When W8 is imaged from the W8 drive then restored via the W7 drive, it still
corrupts the NTFS on the W8 partition.
If W8 is imaged from the W7 drive and then restored, all is well. In the
past, partitions on both drives occasionally became corrupt - a real mess.
Not in several tests today.
Win 7, on the other hand, restores without corruption even if imaged from
within its own drive.

No big deal here. As a long-term IFW user and supporter, I am aware of this
group and workarounds. While not fully comprehending the technicalities, I
understand that the problem stems from changes in W8 made by Microsoft.

But I voice a concern that new buyers, running W8, will see the claim that
IFW can image while its partition is in use and then, upon restore, be
unhappily surprised...
and not know about CHKDSK, which usually restores the file system to a
usable state yet may leave some files hosed. Perhaps that claim should no
longer be made until the situation can be resolved.

[borate]

Ed Smith wrote:
> If you use sleep instead of hibernation, do you still have the same
> problems?

> I use hibernation and when I used the win8 preview on a partition on the
> same hard drive that I have win7 and I had the problem of corruption.
> Win7 I used hibernation.

SLEEP is the mode used on both W7 and W8, on two separate drives, Ed.
HYbrid sleep was set on W7 alone for the most recent test, but I doubt
that's relevant.

[Ed Smith]

OK... thank you for the reply.

"borate" wrote in message news:3666@public.image...

Ed Smith wrote:
> If you use sleep instead of hibernation, do you still have the same
> problems?

> I use hibernation and when I used the win8 preview on a partition on the
> same hard drive that I have win7 and I had the problem of corruption.
> Win7 I used hibernation.

SLEEP is the mode used on both W7 and W8, on two separate drives, Ed.
HYbrid sleep was set on W7 alone for the most recent test, but I doubt
that's relevant.

[a1pcfixer]

In the FWIW dept (for others trying to follow along in this msg thread), here's the differences as noted in Win 7 Help;

"What's the difference between sleep, hibernate, and hybrid sleep?

Sleep is a power-saving state that allows a computer to quickly resume full-power operation (typically within several seconds) when you want to start working again. Putting your computer into the sleep state is like pausing a DVD player—the computer immediately stops what it’s doing and is ready to start again when you want to resume working.

Hibernation is a power-saving state designed primarily for laptops. While sleep puts your work and settings in memory and draws a small amount of power, hibernation puts your open documents and programs on your hard disk, and then turns off your computer. Of all the power-saving states in Windows, hibernation uses the least amount of power. On a laptop, use hibernation when you know that you won't use your laptop for an extended period and won't have an opportunity to charge the battery during that time.

Hybrid sleep is designed primarily for desktop computers. Hybrid sleep is a combination of sleep and hibernate—it puts any open documents and programs in memory and on your hard disk, and then puts your computer into a low-power state so that you can quickly resume your work. That way, if a power failure occurs, Windows can restore your work from your hard disk. When hybrid sleep is turned on, putting your computer into sleep automatically puts your computer into hybrid sleep. Hybrid sleep is typically turned on by default on desktop computers."

[Ed Smith]

Thank you for the detailed explanations.

"a1pcfixer" wrote in message news:3676@public.image...

In the FWIW dept (for others trying to follow along in this msg thread),
here's the differences as noted in Win 7 Help;

"What's the difference between sleep, hibernate, and hybrid sleep?

Sleep is a power-saving state that allows a computer to quickly resume
full-power operation (typically within several seconds) when you want to
start working again. Putting your computer into the sleep state is like
pausing a DVD player--the computer immediately stops what it's doing and is
ready to start again when you want to resume working.

Hibernation is a power-saving state designed primarily for laptops. While
sleep puts your work and settings in memory and draws a small amount of
power, hibernation puts your open documents and programs on your hard disk,
and then turns off your computer. Of all the power-saving states in Windows,
hibernation uses the least amount of power. On a laptop, use hibernation
when you know that you won't use your laptop for an extended period and
won't have an opportunity to charge the battery during that time.

Hybrid sleep is designed primarily for desktop computers. Hybrid sleep is a
combination of sleep and hibernate--it puts any open documents and programs
in memory and on your hard disk, and then puts your computer into a
low-power state so that you can quickly resume your work. That way, if a
power failure occurs, Windows can restore your work from your hard disk.
When hybrid sleep is turned on, putting your computer into sleep
automatically puts your computer into hybrid sleep. Hybrid sleep is
typically turned on by default on desktop computers."

[DrTeeth]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 20:52:45 PDT, just as I was about to take a herb,
"Ed." disturbed my reverie and wrote:

>I haven't installed the RTM yet of win8 because I am not sure about the
>corruption problem and don't want to have it again.

On install, I immediately disabled fast boot via BIBM and disabled
hibernation completely to get some disk space back. The corruption is
only related to using these features
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).

[borate]

DrTeeth wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 20:52:45 PDT, just as I was about to take a herb,
> "Ed." disturbed my reverie and wrote:
>
> >I haven't installed the RTM yet of win8 because I am not sure about the
> >corruption problem and don't want to have it again.
>
> On install, I immediately disabled fast boot via BIBM and disabled
> hibernation completely to get some disk space back. The corruption is
> only related to using these features.

Not here, Dr. T. Hibernation, hybrid sleep and fast start are all disabled, and corruption persists.
This has been going on since the first preview version of 8, as noted in earlier threads.

As long as the image is created OUTside of W8 it's fine. Create it from within 8 while running 8
and it will hose the NTFS on the Win 8 partition - or worse.