IFW backup of Win7 with multiple partitions

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userX
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:51 am

Re: IFW backup of Win7 with multiple partitions

Post by userX »

Just when I thought we were going to end up as best friends, you threw some sliders. :( I want to keep this plain and simple, if you please. :) I would like to get some more information about what I have, and have not, and what I have to do for a pain-free recovery with this new system, just as I was able to do when I made several recoveries with the Win XP system.

In the past when I used IFL for backups, it was easy. Even so, in that case, when I was running Windows XP, there was only one disk, with one partition, on which Windows put everything it needed to function. In the past I cloned the entire disk to another one of equal size. That is not possible any longer because I do not have another disk equal in size to this new laptop's internal disk, which is much larger. However, I do have a much larger NAS device on which I can put data, but as far as I understand, and please correct me if I am wrong, I cannot clone my laptop disk onto the NAS because they are not the same size. Therefore, I now need to change the simple routine of cloning to accomodate this difference. Is that not so? In addition, since I now have a much larger internal disk, a much larger portion of this disk is empty, and it would be inefficient to clone it even if I could.

Furthermore, now, on this system, it is slightly more complicated because there is still one disk, but with three partitions. I am not technically savvy enough at this point to perfectly understand what sort of data are on those partitions, and I need to rectify that here and now, as well as understand how to modify what I did in the past to handle the changes in the new system so that my backup and recovery operations are effective and understand what procedure is best for making easy backups/restores for this fairly simple scenario. :)

TeraByte Support(PP) wrote:
> Look in Disk Management and check the details for each partition. The
> partition with the booting files (the partition that booted to Windows)
> will be marked as "System, Active" and the Windows partition will
> be marked as "Boot" (seems backwards to me too, but that's the
> way it is). From what you've described it looks like the the
> "System" partition is larger because it contains the WinRE files
> along with other data.

How can I take a look at what data is on the partition without risking damage to it? If this smaller partition contains the WinRE files, then what sort of data is on the other unlabeled partition, which I mentioned? What has created, or is presently creating, WinRE files?
>
> Normally, when creating the recovery media you would run the MakeDisk
> program in the appropriate folder. It will allow for customization of
> options and also get the key so the program is unlocked when you boot to
> it. TBWinPE and TBWinRE can be created using the tutorials (TBWinPE:
> http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/ ... torial.htm, TBWinRE:
> http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/ ... torial.htm). Since you
> have Windows 7, I would suggest using the TBWinRE version (it's generally
> easier and doesn't require a large download).

Now you have totally confused me with this talk about TBWinRE, and I need to understand perfectly what is said so that there is no surprises. I already mentioned that I am fairly familiar with using the IFL recovery environment; so is there any reason I cannot or should not continue using it for this present scenario? I do not have problems making downloads of whatever is best, large or not, but I already have made downloads of everything I should need, I believe. I mean, since I already have a bootable IFL CD ready to go, I would prefer to use it. I am clueless concerning your idea that I need TBWinPE instead of IFL. Can I not use IFL, which I know has worked perfectly for me in the past?

I showed you the TBI files I have right now of the backed up data. Three of them were created at one time using IFW when I used it while in Windows and instructed it to backup the whole drive HD 0. When I clicked that disk, it automatically ticked off all three partitions and backed up the whole shebang, putting each partition into a separate file such as you see in my illustration. Later on, when I did a second backup procedure, I "did not" select HD 0 to backup everything. I, separately, backed up the System partition and the Windows OS partition; AND, when doing these backups, I instructed IFW only to backup "Changes Only". Now, having said this, I want to revisit your earlier statement:

> If the backup is of the entire drive you would select the drive for the destination
> when restoring. All existing partitions on the selected drive will be removed (there
> will be a warning) when the restore is started. If the backup is of a single partition
> you would need to select an existing partition (e.g. restoring over the original)
> or free space as the destination. If the backup contains multiple partitions, but
> not all the partitions, then you can restore them all at once if restoring back
> to the original drive (otherwise, restore them one at a time).

Therefore, again, my question is. In the event that I should need to restore, I assume I have to do them separately, and I should start off by using the "Changes Only" images to restore as I expect the program will find the initial images that I put in the very same folder, regardless of the fact that the initial images were backed up all at one time, such as I just described, and the second images (i.e., "Changes Only") were made separately. How does all this sound to you? Thanks. :)
TeraByte Support(PP)
Posts: 1646
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:51 am

Re: IFW backup of Win7 with multiple partitions

Post by TeraByte Support(PP) »

There are several things here that are possibly causing some confusion. I will list them before answering your questions.

1. You say several times that you created the original backups using IFW in Windows. However, they look more like they were created using IFL or IFD using the "Multiple File Set" option (the filenames created match this format). The only other way would be if you used IFW from the Command Prompt so you could use the "/mf" parameter. Can you please verify this for me? Using the "Multiple File Set" option is making what you want to do more complicated than it needs to be.

2. Can you state the version of IFW/IFL/IFD that you're currently using? I assume it's 2.74, but want to make sure.

3. You state that you have a backup of the entire drive. This is not quite correct. What you have are separate backups of each partition on the entire drive. When you create an Entire Disk Image backup you have one backup that includes all the partitions on the drive. This type of backup, created using IFW GUI in Windows, would (by default) result in one TBI file containing the entire drive -- not the separate files you describe.

4. Since you have separate partition backups, you would have to restore each partition separately (or just the ones needed) to restore to the current state. You will not be able to restore the entire drive in one restore procedure.

5. What I would suggest is that you create a new backup of the Entire Disk and use that as the base. It will make restoring easier and you won't have to wonder if you're missing something. To do this, check the checkbox for the "Drive" in the listing (in your case here, it would be the "HD 0" box). IFW will automatically check the other partitions. All boxes for the drive should be white with a black checkmark (if the drive box is gray, you're creating a "partial" backup of the drive). This backup can then be restored back to the drive in one restore procedure. You can also create differential backups of the drive based on it that will include changes made to any of the partitions.

--------------

userX wrote:
> However, I do
> have a much larger NAS device on which I can put data, but as far as I understand,
> and please correct me if I am wrong, I cannot clone my laptop disk onto the NAS
> because they are not the same size.

You can't clone to the NAS because it's not a physical drive connected to the system. It is possible to copy a drive to a drive of a different size (bigger or smaller) as long as the data/partitions can fit (the program will tell you if there's not enough space available). However, it's generally better to create backup images of the drive instead.

> In addition, since
> I now have a much larger internal disk, a much larger portion of this disk is empty,
> and it would be inefficient to clone it even if I could.

That's only because you were copying everything, including unused sectors. If you were just copying the used data it wouldn't matter what the source drive's size was (e.g. a 250GB drive and a 2TB drive would take the same amount of time for 50GB of used data).

> How can I take a look at what data is on the partition without risking damage to it?
> If this smaller partition contains the WinRE files, then what sort of data is on the
> other unlabeled partition, which I mentioned? What has created, or is presently
> creating, WinRE files?

If custom partition types are used then it is not really an "easy" thing to view the contents. You may need to change the partition ID value, for example, or unhide the partition. It's usually not necessary to make these types of changes since those partitions do not generally need to be accessed.

It would appear that you have one partition with Windows on it, one partition with the booting files and the Windows RE, and one partition with the HP Recovery image (allows restoring the computer back to the factory state). Pressing F8 when booting will get you the Windows Safe Mode menu where you can then select to "Repair your computer" and boot into WinRE. Getting into the HP Recovery partition usually involves pressing a key at boot-up (probably on the first screen displayed), though it may accessible from elsewhere (Windows, WinRE, etc.). This information is normally in the user's manual.

> Now you have totally confused me with this talk about TBWinRE, and I need to
> understand perfectly what is said so that there is no surprises. I already mentioned
> that I am fairly familiar with using the IFL recovery environment; so is there any
> reason I cannot or should not continue using it for this present scenario? I do not
> have problems making downloads of whatever is best, large or not, but I already have
> made downloads of everything I should need, I believe. I mean, since I already have a
> bootable IFL CD ready to go, I would prefer to use it. I am clueless concerning your
> idea that I need TBWinPE instead of IFL. Can I not use IFL, which I know has worked
> perfectly for me in the past?

It's perfectly fine to continue using IFL. TBWinPE/RE is just another option available. It uses WinPE/RE to create the boot media containing IFW. This allows doing restores with IFW (IFW requires Windows). You do not have to create the TBWinPE/RE media if you don't want to. I just mentioned it as an alternative and recommended TBWinRE since it doesn't require downloading the 1.6GB WAIK. Some people prefer using IFW over IFD/IFL.

> Therefore, again, my question is. In the event that I should need to restore, I
> assume I have to do them separately, and I should start off by using the
> "Changes Only" images to restore as I expect the program will find the
> initial images that I put in the very same folder, regardless of the fact that the
> initial images were backed up all at one time, such as I just described, and the
> second images (i.e., "Changes Only") were made separately. How does all
> this sound to you? Thanks. :)

That's correct. Since your backups are all of single partitions you will need to restore them separately. However, as noted above, this is not the method I would recommend since it's making the backup/restore procedures more complicated than you seem to want.
DrTeeth
Posts: 1289
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: IFW backup of Win7 with multiple partitions

Post by DrTeeth »

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 17:06:27 PDT, just as I was about to take a herb,
TeraByte Support(PP) disturbed my reverie and wrote:

>That's correct. Since your backups are all of single partitions you will need to restore them separately.
PMFJI, this is how I prefer to backup/restore. This is because only
one partition has my main OS, the rest are others that I experiment
with and do not change much. It would be overkill for me personally to
backup my whole disk.

Hope I have not misread anything as word wrapping does not work in my
news reader (Agent 1.7).
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).
userX
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:51 am

Re: IFW backup of Win7 with multiple partitions

Post by userX »

TeraByte Support(PP) wrote:
> There are several things here that are possibly causing some confusion. I will list
> them before answering your questions.
>
> 1. You say several times that you created the original backups using IFW in Windows.
> However, they look more like they were created using IFL or IFD using the
> "Multiple File Set" option (the filenames created match this format). The
> only other way would be if you used IFW from the Command Prompt so you could use the
> "/mf" parameter. Can you please verify this for me? Using the
> "Multiple File Set" option is making what you want to do more complicated
> than it needs to be.

When I did the backup "within Windows GUI", not at the command prompt (I assure you), using IFW, I also used the program's feature to save the batch command to file. This is it:

start "" "C:\Program Files (x86)\TeraByte Unlimited\Image for Windows\V2\imagew.exe" /b /d:w0 /f:"E:\Backups\Toshiba LT\Backup-w0-$~YYYY$-$~MM$-$~DD$-$~HHMM$" /v /mf

Yes, I did select the multifile box because I wanted to have separate files for separate partitions, which appears to me what I got, as expected. I am not understanding why you say that using this option is "making [it] more complicated than it needs to be." :)

> 2. Can you state the version of IFW/IFL/IFD that you're currently using? I assume
> it's 2.74, but want to make sure.

I have IFW 2.73 installed right now.

> 3. You state that you have a backup of the entire drive. This is not quite correct.

Perhaps we express this idea differently, but I do not see any substantial difference in what I have. When I selected HD0 to backup, that is the entire drive in my way of thinking even though the program backed it up into three files corresponding to the three partitions as a consequence of my selection of multifile. Is that not so? I mean, if I had not checked the multifile option, still I would have the same data backed up although it may have been put into one large file in that case.

> What you have are separate backups of each partition on the entire drive. When you
> create an Entire Disk Image backup you have one backup that includes all the
> partitions on the drive. This type of backup, created using IFW GUI in Windows, would
> (by default) result in one TBI file containing the entire drive -- not the separate
> files you describe.

That does not sound correct to me if I understand you right. In addition, even when I was creating an Entire Disk Image, it produced, yes, only one image, but this one image consisted of multiple files because I instructed the IFL program to limit the size of the files.

I do not have a disk image right now, I have a backup consisting of three files, each corresponding to my three separate partitions; and I made this data using IFW from within the Windows GUI while I continued working in Windows.

Please correct me if I am wrong by all means, but I am not sure that we have any significant difference here possibly affecting the purpose of my dialogue, which is merely to understand "exactly" what I would need to do if I end up having to make a restoration of my system onto this same hard drive from the backed up data files if the present system data should become corrupted for some reason.

Incidentally, you mentioned something that makes me think that I may have caused some confusion by not explicitly stating another point of distinction about my procedure. If so, I must apologize. I had mentioned that I have a large NAS on which I can store the backup. I also have a large USB drive for making backups, which I can attach directly to this laptop. It is not as huge as the NAS and it is only about half as large as the laptop's disk, but it is quite a bit larger than the amount of data on the disk right now. It is this onto this drive that I am making these backups until such time as I can ascertain 100% that my procedure based on our dialogue is correct and effective. It may be irrelevant at this point in terms of what we are talking about, but I wanted to mention it for sake of clarity.
>
> 4. Since you have separate partition backups, you would have to restore each
> partition separately (or just the ones needed) to restore to the current state. You
> will not be able to restore the entire drive in one restore procedure.

Okay, that does not sound like a big issue insofar as I understand it. What I am not understanding right now, because there are multiple partitions, is two things, basically. First, should I now be making a backup of the "System" partition each time I make a backup of the other partition, the one where Windows OS and everything else, are now installed? Secondly, when it comes time to restore data from my backups, in light of what I have explained to you of my procedure for making these backups, will it be sufficient for me to boot into the IFL environment, select the latest incremental backup file of the Windows partition and tell the program to restore it onto this laptop's disk? I mean should I always expect to first restore one partition and then the other? If so, fine, but I am asking like this because when I made the initial backup, I only selected HD0 and the entire thing was backed up, albeit with the multifile option. I think I hear you saying now, however, that during restore, it will not be the case that I should select HD0; rather, I shall need to restore partitions separately. Is that right? I am not confused about that, but I would just like to know what to expect.
>
> 5. What I would suggest is that you create a new backup of the Entire Disk and use
> that as the base. It will make restoring easier and you won't have to wonder if
> you're missing something. To do this, check the checkbox for the "Drive" in
> the listing (in your case here, it would be the "HD 0" box). IFW will
> automatically check the other partitions.

What you described right here is already what I did to make this backup, exactly, from within Windows. All I did that is "possibly" different is that I ALSO used the multifile checkbox option in order to put these partitions in separate images. I did it this way because it was my very first, and therefore only, backup of everything, and because I do not anticipate that the data on partition 3, the one where my manufacturer stored the original system. Does this not make sense to have done it this way?

> All boxes for the drive should be white
> with a black checkmark (if the drive box is gray, you're creating a
> "partial" backup of the drive). This backup can then be restored back to
> the drive in one restore procedure. You can also create differential backups of the
> drive based on it that will include changes made to any of the partitions.
>
> --------------
>
> userX wrote:
> > However, I do
> > have a much larger NAS device on which I can put data, but as far as I
> understand,
> > and please correct me if I am wrong, I cannot clone my laptop disk onto the NAS
> > because they are not the same size.
>
> You can't clone to the NAS because it's not a physical drive connected to the system.
> It is possible to copy a drive to a drive of a different size (bigger or smaller) as
> long as the data/partitions can fit (the program will tell you if there's not enough
> space available). However, it's generally better to create backup images of the drive
> instead.

I believe that what I have right now is backup images. However, I am a little concerned because you said that my backups don't look like what I explained to you I did.

What exactly does this statement mean: "However, it's generally better to create backup images of the drive
instead." Do you mean a clone image byte for byte?

[snip] ...


> It's perfectly fine to continue using IFL. TBWinPE/RE is just another option
> available. It uses WinPE/RE to create the boot media containing IFW. This allows
> doing restores with IFW (IFW requires Windows). You do not have to create the
> TBWinPE/RE media if you don't want to. I just mentioned it as an alternative and
> recommended TBWinRE since it doesn't require downloading the 1.6GB WAIK. Some people
> prefer using IFW over IFD/IFL.

I "was" using IFL in the past so that I could clone the disk, byte for byte in its entirety. I was using the backed up data for two purposes: as my backup of files (for accessing and recovering individual files with TBIView if necessary) and as my restore data (for a total restoration of data if the current system became corrupted). Now, however, I am not cloning this disk while in a separate environment; rather, I am simply backing up while I am still in Windows. Even so, I would still need to use IFL if it were to become necessary for a complete restoration.
>
> > Therefore, again, my question is. In the event that I should need to restore, I
> > assume I have to do them separately, and I should start off by using the
> > "Changes Only" images to restore as I expect the program will find the
> > initial images that I put in the very same folder, regardless of the fact that
> the
> > initial images were backed up all at one time, such as I just described, and the
> > second images (i.e., "Changes Only") were made separately. How does
> all
> > this sound to you? Thanks. :)
>
> That's correct. Since your backups are all of single partitions you will need to
> restore them separately. However, as noted above, this is not the method I would
> recommend since it's making the backup/restore procedures more complicated than you
> seem to want.
TeraByte Support(PP)
Posts: 1646
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:51 am

Re: IFW backup of Win7 with multiple partitions

Post by TeraByte Support(PP) »

userX wrote:
> Yes, I did select the multifile box because I wanted to have separate files for
> separate partitions, which appears to me what I got, as expected.

Sorry for the confusion over this. I was missing the checkbox in IFW.

> I am not
> understanding why you say that using this option is "making [it] more
> complicated than it needs to be." :)

Use whatever method works best for you. I generally prefer backing up the drive as a whole (when configured such as yours) or at least backing up the Boot and System partitions together. Keep in mind that even if all three partitions are in a single TBI file you can still just restore the Windows partition (or any other partition) by itself.

> Perhaps we express this idea differently, but I do not see any substantial difference
> in what I have. When I selected HD0 to backup, that is the entire drive in my way of
> thinking even though the program backed it up into three files corresponding to the
> three partitions as a consequence of my selection of multifile. Is that not so? I
> mean, if I had not checked the multifile option, still I would have the same data
> backed up although it may have been put into one large file in that case.

The difference is when restoring you have different options available for Entire Disk vs. Partition. For example, you can automatically scale to a larger drive. Also, some options, such as updating the boot partition, are handled automatically. Again, use the method that works best for you. Either way, you do have what you need to restore the drive.

> Okay, that does not sound like a big issue insofar as I understand it. What I am not
> understanding right now, because there are multiple partitions, is two things,
> basically. First, should I now be making a backup of the "System"
> partition each time I make a backup of the other partition, the one where Windows OS
> and everything else, are now installed?

I would recommend this or just backing them up together.

> Secondly, when it comes time to restore data
> from my backups, in light of what I have explained to you of my procedure for making
> these backups, will it be sufficient for me to boot into the IFL environment, select
> the latest incremental backup file of the Windows partition and tell the program to
> restore it onto this laptop's disk?

Yes. If you use the "Automatic" mode it will try to locate the destination partition automatically (it will ask if it can't find it -- just as in "Normal" mode). Also, just to be clear, the imaging programs only create differential backups (not incrementals).

> I mean should I always expect to first restore
> one partition and then the other?

I would think that normally you would only need to restore the Windows partition. However, if you restored both the System and Windows partitions, restore the System partition first (use the "Set Active" option) and then the Windows partition (use the "Update Boot Partition" option).

> What exactly does this statement mean: "However, it's generally better to
> create backup images of the drive
> instead." Do you mean a clone image byte for byte?

No. I just meant that for backup purposes, it's generally better to create backup images instead of cloning. Cloning requires one drive per backup.
TAC109
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:41 pm

Re: IFW backup of Win7 with multiple partitions

Post by TAC109 »

On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:32:28 PDT, DrTeeth
wrote:

>Hope I have not misread anything as word wrapping does not work in my
>news reader (Agent 1.7).

To turn on word wrapping when viewing messages in Agent go to the View
menu and select 'word wrap' (or press the shortcut key alpha 'O').

Cheers
DrTeeth
Posts: 1289
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: IFW backup of Win7 with multiple partitions

Post by DrTeeth »

On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:47:27 PDT, just as I was about to take a herb,
Tom Cole disturbed my reverie and
wrote:

>To turn on word wrapping when viewing messages in Agent go to the View
>menu and select 'word wrap' (or press the shortcut key alpha 'O').

Thanks. All this time I thought that it *was* on but just not working
with the web forum software.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose whether or not
to dance in the puddles (Jewish proverb).
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