Day 1 BootIt UEFI install to dual boot Win10 & Mint 19.1

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Re: Day 1 BootIt UEFI install to dual boot Win10 & Mint 19.1

Postby brucebne » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:17 am

Brian K wrote:
> Do you have Compatibility Support Module disabled in the BIOS? Make sure
> legacy can't boot.

hmmm....ok, my dell laptop was in the car.
went out and got it and stuck one of the bootable usb keys in it, with all legacy options off.

So the Dell Latitude 5289 boots a UEFI bootable USB stick in uefi only mode.....and the Lenovo Yoga doesn't (it just hands after I make any selection from the usb grub menu).

This indicates the Lenovo bios is hamstrung. I think I updated the firmware a few months ago but will check again.....and report back.
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Re: Day 1 BootIt UEFI install to dual boot Win10 & Mint 19.1

Postby Brian K » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:20 am

Does the Lenovo have a CSM?
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Re: Day 1 BootIt UEFI install to dual boot Win10 & Mint 19.1

Postby brucebne » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:47 am

Brian K wrote:
> Does the Lenovo have a CSM?

It's not called CSM (compatibility support mode).

There's individual options to
- choose legacy OR uefi.
- choose usb boot support
- choose legacy boot support.

There was actually a firmware update, that I just applied, but it made no difference.

I think this Yoga model is probably locked into windows more than most.....so the Bios might be pretty basic.
It came with a RAID ssd setup rather than ACHI which is an issue when wanting to install other OSs and mess with partitions.
I didn't attempt to install Linux on this laptop for many months because I just didn't have the time to try it and lose the original SSD functionality.
Eventually, I had time and backed up the whole SSD before changing from RAID to ACHI. which didn't create an issue.
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Re: Day 1 BootIt UEFI install to dual boot Win10 & Mint 19.1

Postby brucebne » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:59 am

I think this Lenovo installation experience drives home the need for Linux to work closer with laptop manufacturers for compatibility.
I know some manufacturers are providing lists and specific models that are more compatible with Linux....but when I bought the Lenovo, I did it purely on its low weight.
My criteria was to reduce cabin bag weight to 7kg and volume to 35 liters. This is 'carry on' limit for most airlines throughout the world.
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Re: Day 1 BootIt UEFI install to dual boot Win10 & Mint 19.1

Postby CyberSimian » Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:49 am

brucebne wrote:
> the instos won't boot unless legacy is turned on.

I have a Lenovo 700-15ISK, and that has a "Secure Boot" setting in the BIOS. If your Yoga also has that setting, try the combination of:

(1) "Boot Mode" set to "UEFI".
(2) "Secure Boot" set to "Disabled".

I changed my 700-15ISK to "Legacy Support" and re-installed Windows in MBR mode, so I don't have a lot of knowledge of UEFI (so the above suggestion may not work). One point though:

Some installation memory sticks can install in either UEFI mode or MBR mode (the memory stick has the boot files for both). The Windows 10 installer downloaded from Microsoft is like this. In contrast, the Lenovo version of Windows 10 installs only in UEFI mode. I don't know whether the Linux distributions that you are trying to install are like Microsoft or like Lenovo.

-- from CyberSimian in the UK
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Re: Day 1 BootIt UEFI install to dual boot Win10 & Mint 19.1

Postby brucebne » Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:31 am

CyberSimian wrote:
> brucebne wrote:
> > the instos won't boot unless legacy is turned on.
>
> I have a Lenovo 700-15ISK, and that has a "Secure Boot" setting in the
> BIOS. If your Yoga also has that setting, try the combination of:
>
> (1) "Boot Mode" set to "UEFI".
> (2) "Secure Boot" set to "Disabled".
>
> I changed my 700-15ISK to "Legacy Support" and re-installed Windows in MBR
> mode, so I don't have a lot of knowledge of UEFI (so the above suggestion may not
> work). One point though:
>
> Some installation memory sticks can install in either UEFI mode or MBR mode (the
> memory stick has the boot files for both). The Windows 10 installer downloaded from
> Microsoft is like this. In contrast, the Lenovo version of Windows 10 installs only
> in UEFI mode. I don't know whether the Linux distributions that you are trying to
> install are like Microsoft or like Lenovo.
>
> -- from CyberSimian in the UK


Thanks Cyber.

I have the Lenovo Yoga 720-13IKB
And selected the Bios settings you mention above....but they're the settings that don't let UEFI bootable USB sticks boot beyond the OS grub menu.
(These sticks work in my Dell Latitude though)

Point taken about the dual boot sticks. However, I first made the sticks with Rufus in windows, and set them to UEFI boot only.

Re Linux distros that I know don't boot in UEFI despite being installed on a UEFI bootable USB - Mint 19.1, MX Linux....and others.

Anyway, the thing is these sticks boot on my Dell Latitude in pure UEFI mode.....so that's a sure sign this is a Lenovo BIOS issue.


Cyber, now that you mention it (because I didn't think of it)....is to do keep BIOS in legacy, and convert the SSD to MBR (from GPT).
That would solve so many issues....and allow me to get some more life out of my BIBM license!!! :)
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Re: Day 1 BootIt UEFI install to dual boot Win10 & Mint 19.1

Postby CyberSimian » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:40 am

brucebne wrote:
> is to keep BIOS
> in legacy, and convert the SSD to MBR (from GPT).

I don't want to be a wet blanket, but there is some doubt whether NVMe SSDs can boot in MBR mode. I think Dr Teeth had some problems here (or perhaps info from his motherboard manufacturer that it would not work). And sadly I also have to confirm some problems in this area.

My 700-15ISK was shipped with a 128GB M.2 NVMe SSD plus a 1TB SATA HDD. The 128GB NVMe SSD was not big enough for multiple operating systems, so I replaced it with a 512GB NVMe SSD. But I could never get that to work properly with BIBM when it was formatted with an MBR. If I remember correctly, it did boot in MBR mode, but some EMBR partitions kept going AWOL.

In the end, I re-installed the 128GB NVMe SSD with GPT and the Windows 10 pre-load (I had not modified it), and replaced the 1TB HDD with a 2TB SATA SSD formatted with an MBR. I installed the multiple operating systems on the SATA SSD with BIBM, and keep the NVMe SSD for updating the BIOS in UEFI mode (booting from the Lenovo's "BIOS Boot Menu").

-- from CyberSimian in the UK
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Re: Day 1 BootIt UEFI install to dual boot Win10 & Mint 19.1

Postby brucebne » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:00 pm

Things learned in the last 48 hours:

- GPT and Linux OSs are sensitive to doing anything with partitions - resizing, moving, adding, deleting, formatting.
Why so?
- Everytime you do one of these operations, it may require a fsck correction to get the system to boot.
- GUIDs change with partition formatting. This will create boot issues due to fstab having redundant GUIDs.
In a new test install I did of Fedora, I formatted the swap partition. I didn't realize this changed its GUID. When I tried to run Mint, it took 2 minutes to boot... an obscure forum reference said if fstab points to a non existent GUID, then it will super slow booting, and sometimes stop it altogether.
- If using BIU for imaging partitions, it is wise to restore the images exactly back where they came from, and ensure the GUID is the same.
- /dev/ numbers are very changeable. If you add a partition, all numbers to the right can change, which is an issue if in your OS you use /devs as parition identifiers.
- back up the GPT tables. If these get corrupted, your system and data can be inaccessible.

So, messing with GPT partitions is a very different and dangerous animal compared to MBR.

The issues I've had over the last week appear to have been due to my Lenovo Yoga 720's restrictive BIOS.
In particular it does not allow booting of UEFI only USB sticks. The BIOS has to be put into legacy support mode to boot these sticks.
This means Linux OSs cannot be installed in pure UEFI mode....and it is variable where grub and the bootloader are installed (either on ESP or the OS partition).
However, once a Linux OS has been installed via legacy support, BIOS can be changed back to UEFI only, and the computer will access the OS fine.
So how's that for a dog's breakfast?

Moral of the story....next laptop I use to mess with Linux OSs, will be confirmed compatible with Linux.

My Lenovo Yoga is one of a series that was originally hobbled in installing anything other than Windows 10 (with RAID drivers).
However the BIOS was later written to include Linux insto. ... however, it's a hatchet job.

I'm pretty much done experimenting with Linux ....at least on this Lenovo.
After having a look at Manjaro, Elementary, Fedora, MX Linux, Ubuntu.....I have concluded Mint is superior. All the other OSs had issues of one sort or another.
Mint is a brilliant real world productivity substitute for Windows 10, and bugs are being ironed out consistently.
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Re: Day 1 BootIt UEFI install to dual boot Win10 & Mint 19.1

Postby mjnelson99 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:35 pm

I would not mind using Windows much less unless it messes with my
computer drastically. Looks like MS does not make it easy to use other
programs?
Mary

On 1/30/2019 5:00 PM, brucebne wrote:
> Things learned in the last 48 hours:
>
> - GPT and Linux OSs are sensitive to doing anything with partitions - resizing, moving, adding, deleting, formatting.
> Why so?
> - Everytime you do one of these operations, it may require a fsck correction to get the system to boot.
> - GUIDs change with partition formatting. This will create boot issues due to fstab having redundant GUIDs.
> In a new test install I did of Fedora, I formatted the swap partition. I didn't realize this changed its GUID. When I tried to run Mint, it took 2 minutes to boot... an obscure forum reference said if fstab points to a non existent GUID, then it will super slow booting, and sometimes stop it altogether.
> - If using BIU for imaging partitions, it is wise to restore the images exactly back where they came from, and ensure the GUID is the same.
> - /dev/ numbers are very changeable. If you add a partition, all numbers to the right can change, which is an issue if in your OS you use /devs as parition identifiers.
> - back up the GPT tables. If these get corrupted, your system and data can be inaccessible.
>
> So, messing with GPT partitions is a very different and dangerous animal compared to MBR.
>
> The issues I've had over the last week appear to have been due to my Lenovo Yoga 720's restrictive BIOS.
> In particular it does not allow booting of UEFI only USB sticks. The BIOS has to be put into legacy support mode to boot these sticks.
> This means Linux OSs cannot be installed in pure UEFI mode....and it is variable where grub and the bootloader are installed (either on ESP or the OS partition).
> However, once a Linux OS has been installed via legacy support, BIOS can be changed back to UEFI only, and the computer will access the OS fine.
> So how's that for a dog's breakfast?
>
> Moral of the story....next laptop I use to mess with Linux OSs, will be confirmed compatible with Linux.
>
> My Lenovo Yoga is one of a series that was originally hobbled in installing anything other than Windows 10 (with RAID drivers).
> However the BIOS was later written to include Linux insto. ... however, it's a hatchet job.
>
> I'm pretty much done experimenting with Linux ....at least on this Lenovo.
> After having a look at Manjaro, Elementary, Fedora, MX Linux, Ubuntu.....I have concluded Mint is superior. All the other OSs had issues of one sort or another.
> Mint is a brilliant real world productivity substitute for Windows 10, and bugs are being ironed out consistently.
>
>
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Re: Day 1 BootIt UEFI install to dual boot Win10 & Mint 19.1

Postby Brian K » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:34 pm

brucebne wrote:
>
> - GPT and Linux OSs are sensitive to doing anything with partitions -
> resizing, moving, adding, deleting, formatting.
> Why so?
> - Everytime you do one of these operations, it may require a fsck
> correction to get the system to boot.

> - If using BIU for imaging partitions, it is wise to restore the images
> exactly back where they came from,


Bruce, your UEFI firmware is letting you down. I can Slide Linux partitions and the OS still boots. I can delete the Linux partition and restore the image to any area of free space on the same drive and the OS still boots. I can delete the Linux partition and restore the image to any of my other drives and the OS still boots. No fixes are needed.
Last edited by Brian K on Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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