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Please help me solve new BIBM/Win 10 Install Weirdness?

Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:09 pm

If anyone can help me resolve this new weird problem, it's you folks here at Terabyte! And that's not flattery, since Brian and others have gone far beyond the call of duty for me in the past. I absolutely LOVE BootIt BM! It's an exceptionally great product that has served me well for a very long time. Hooray and thanks to you brilliant software engineers!

But I need help. Again. Badly.

Current Issue: Installing 64-bit Windows 10 1809 (with the new fixes from Microsoft) has been plagued with inexplicable problems that are threatening to drive me nuts! :oops:
I'm trying to install that version of Win 10 on a home-built desktop computer whose hardware works great, and has OS's that have been working extremely well until recently. It's always been a dual boot system with 64-bit Windows 7 Pro and 64-bit Windows 10 Pro, but I almost always use Win 10. But after a successful install, I can't get it to boot properly this time, although I've made it work in the past.

History: My Windows 10 OS suddenly became effectively dysfunctional, even though Avira and MBAM found no malware anywhere, and SFC found no corruptions. So after several repair attempts failed, I decided to install Win 10 from scratch. This seemed the best time to swap two computers, both home-built using the same mobo: An ASUS Z87-A. I wanted to swap the two boxes because over time, I found I was demanding more and more of the one with the less powerful CPU, an i5, while that with the more powerful i7 had much lower demands. Also, the i7 box was better suited to the location I wanted. Since they both had the same mobo and same operating systems, I didn't anticipate any problems due to the swap (aside from possible Microsoft activation issues). This is because although I swapped machines, I did NOT swap any disk drives -- so the operating systems and applications and other data disks remained where they were. And this seems to have worked fine (and I still think so).

So I used various Windows prep tools to pre-customize and debloat the installation media. But the MSMG ToolKit eventually failed because I had to run it under Windows 7, so I tried WinToolkit. That didn't work properly either, so I reluctantly purchased a home license of NTLite, which successfully produced a customized Win 10 1809 install ISO.

My first attempt of installing it didn't pan out because I installed it on an EMBR disk (because I had pre-planned to use BIBM). But after I disabled BIBM and converted the disk back to a standard MBR disk (an SSD), the installation appeared to work correctly. But when I then changed the disk back to EMBR and re-activated BIBM (partitions limited to 4 primaries), the Partition Work function complained that there was no BCD, a problem I've run into too many times. MY QUESTION ONE: Is it normal that the Installation of Windows 10 does NOT create a BCD Store?

So I booted to Windows 7 and ran the BCDEDIT commands to create a BCD store on the new Win 10 partition. Then I re-installed BIBM v1.52

But when I rebooted into BIBM on the Win 10 disk for the first time, I noticed that although I could successfully correct the top item in the Partition Work page for all parameters, when I selected the second radio button, there were only two entries: Windows Boot Manager and the same item from radio button one. In other words, there were no entries for Resume or Recovery or Memory testing. With all previous BCD stores for both Win 10 and Win 7, all of them were present, so this is MY QUESTION TWO: Did I do something wrong in the BCDEDIT commands to produce this unusual situation? What are the recommended command sequence?

So after completing the Partition Work and creating the required Boot Menu item and rebooting then selecting the new Boot menu item, I got an error message complaining the NTLDR is missing. MY QUESTION THREE: What did I do wrong that produced this error message?

At this point, my memory has failed me. I don't recall what error message I saw on the next boot attempt, but I THINK I got a message about finding no operating system to boot. I THINK the next thing I did was to locate instructions to use the BOOTSECT command, which I entered under Windows 7 elevated cmd line, as follows: Bootsect /nt60 SYS x: (where I substituted the Win 10 volume's drive letter for "x").

But that still didn't allow me to boot into Windows 10 using BIBM.

So, MY QUESTION FOUR (cumulative): WHAT IS THE CORRECT PROCEDURE to install Windows 10 on a standard MBR partition, CREATE a correct BCD store, then install BIBM, change the disk to EMBR, then set up BIBM to boot this new Windows 10 installation? Obviously, I must have screwed up somewhere, even though I've done this for Windows 7 many times without any problems, and apparently also did so for Windows 10 in the past (but I no longer recall what I did for Windows 10 in the past).

I don't think I'd have needed to ask for so much help if it were not for the inexplicable total absence of a BCD store after installing windows. I sincerely apologize for my stupidity! :oops:


Re: Please help me solve new BIBM/Win 10 Install Weirdness?

Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:13 pm

Well, I tried re-installing 64-bit Windows 10 Pro 1809 from scratch. Once again, it did NOT create a BCD store. I'm still stymied and stuck.

Re: Please help me solve new BIBM/Win 10 Install Weirdness?

Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:13 pm

AARGH! I entered another post, but the forum lied that I wasn't logged in, which I was.

I'll try again before committing suicide...


I coped the Boot folder from another (non-working) Windows 10 partition in order to create a FULL BCD store.

When I tried to boot to the new Win 10 install, the boot failed with the error message "NTLDR is missing", which is NOT supposed to appear booting Win 10.

So I booted into the Windows 10 install media and navigated through to the command prompt, and entered:

bootrec.exe /mbr
bootrec.exe /fixboot
bootrec.exe /rebuildbcd
bootsect.exe /nt60 all /force

Then I booted normally and selected the new Win 10 system using BIBM. Then I got the error message "No operating system was found".

Please help keep me from falling into madness and killing myself.

Re: Please help me solve new BIBM/Win 10 Install Weirdness?

Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:30 pm


When you boot Win7 do you see a Microsoft Boot Menu?

Can you look in Partition Work and let us know which partitions are present? Their size and amount of data in each partition?

Re: Please help me solve new BIBM/Win 10 Install Weirdness?

Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:30 pm

Hi, Brian, my friend!

Sorry to be such a PITA. I'm also sorry for the delay in responding, but I've been working on this for weeks with no success, and I became so EXTREMELY frustrated that I absolutely had to shove the problems out of my brain so I had a chance to recover my composition. I'm sure you understand...

So, to answer your questions...

(1) No, I don't see the MS boot menu when I boot Win 7.

(2) There are three drives connected, two of which are SSDs. The target Win 10 install partition is one of the SSDs, with a total available capacity of 111.8 GB. I create an empty 32 MB Fat32 partition empty at the start of the disk to eventually hold BIBM. The rest is completely allocated for the Windows 10 system, which I pre-format as NTFS, but otherwise leave blank. That disk is the first in the BIOS boot order.

After I install Win 10, I ensure it boots correctly, which is does. I don't think it showed the MS Boot Menu first, but I don't recall with certainty. Then I reboot from the BIBM installation flash drive (v1.52), and install it into that first 32 MB FAT32 partition and reboot. The first time BIBM loads, I go into Partition Work and select the new Win 10 boot partition, but it immediately reports that no BCD store exists.

That has happened all three times I've started from scratch.

Let me know if you'd like more info...


Re: Please help me solve new BIBM/Win 10 Install Weirdness?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:04 am


So Win7 and Win10 are on different SSDs. Correct?

BIBM is on the same SSD as BIBM?

Which partitions are on the Win7 SSD?

Do both OS boot from BIBM?

Which partitions do you have in the Win10 Boot Item? (In MBR Details on the right)
In the Win10 Boot Item which partition is in the Boot field on the left side.

Re: Please help me solve new BIBM/Win 10 Install Weirdness?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:32 am

Yes, Win 10 is on the first SSD and Win 7 is on the other. And yes, BIBM is on the same SSD as the target Win 10 system.

But I've just learned something I was previously totally unaware of, but you most probably already did: Apparently, if the target SSD had no partitions and was instead completely unforrmatted, the Win 10 installation would create TWO partitions: A Boot Partition and another NTFS partition to hold the OS and user files (if I've understood correctly).

But since I manually created two partitions (a FAT32 for BIBM and the rest NTFS formatted), either the Win 10 install put the boot partition into the FAT32 partition and I inadvertently clobbered it when I installed BIBM over it, -OR- the Win 10 install process created the BCD store under the /Windows directory instead of the /Boot partition.

I had no idea that was the case, but I guess I'm not entirely sure it actually IS true. What say you?

Here's what I plan to do now: I'll leave the entire SSD unformatted, install Windows 10 from scratch, and once the installation is complete and it boots up, I'll use Disk Management to look to see if it created a separate boot partition. If it did -- if there's two partitions with one being a boot partition, I'll create a third partition, format it as FAT32, and install BIBM there. However, I'm not at all sure how to setup BIBM in Partition Work OR the Boot Menu. What do you think?

But if the install did NOT create a separate boot partition, then the BCD store will be under /Windows (though I'm not sure exactly where). Then I'll create a /Boot folder at the root and copy the BCD store there from /Windows. That way, BIBM will find it.

Please tell me what you think?

Re: Please help me solve new BIBM/Win 10 Install Weirdness?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:49 am

Yes, Pilot Error. Your method of installing Win10 needs attention so don't do anything at the moment.

Select the BIBM partition in Partition Work, click BCD Edit. Is there an error or can you do a BCD Edit?

So Win10 doesn't boot from BIBM?

Select the Win7 partition in Partition Work, click BCD Edit. With a dot in Menu what Items are already present in the white rectangle.

Re: Please help me solve new BIBM/Win 10 Install Weirdness?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:57 am

OK, Brian, here's where I am now...

I deleted all partitions on the target SSD so that the entire drive was unformatted. Then I installed Windows 10 1809, which worked fine. Note that the first drive in the BIOS boot order was the second SSD, the one with Windows 7. So when I successfully booted into the new Win 10, installed EasyBCD, and used it to examine the BCD store, here's what it reported:

There are a total of 2 entries listed in the bootloader.

Default: Windows 10
Timeout: None
Boot Drive: E:\

Entry #1
Name: Windows 10
BCD ID: {current}
Drive: C:\
Bootloader Path: \Windows\system32\winload.exe

Entry #2
Name: SSD2 Win 7 - 18-Nov-18
BCD ID: {bf05d1a1-f1c6-11e8-bf3c-74d02b90a2c2}
Drive: E:\
Bootloader Path: \Windows\system32\winload.exe

(Dammit, I sure wish I could use BBCode! :evil: )

Next, I booted into Acronis Disk Director 12.5 from a flash drive, moved the single partition down 32 MB, created a FAT16 partition in the newly unallocated space at the start of the Windows 10 SSD, then booted into the BIBM install flash drive, and finally installed BIBM there. I then had to set the Windows 10 SSD to be first in the boot order (otherwise BIBM wouldn't be invoked). When the newly installed BIBM started up, I went into Partition Work, selected the Windows 10 system partition, and pressed the BCD button. But exactly as it always has, it immediately complained that No BCD Store existed. Damn! Naturally, BIBM couldn't boot into Windows 10 at all (No operating system found).

And sure enough, the Win 10 install created the BCD store under C:\Windows\Boot, as the new information I wrote of said it would be. But I'm surprised and confused: If BIBM doesn't see a BCD store at C:\Boot, why doesn't it look at C:\Windows\Boot for it? It's impossible to imagine that I'm the very first person to try to setup BIBM to boot Windows 10! So why hasn't anyone else reported this very same problem before?

At least I can still boot into Windows 10, but I had to set the second SSD with Win 7 first in the BIOS boot order to do that.

What do you think is going wrong?

Re: Please help me solve new BIBM/Win 10 Install Weirdness?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:50 pm


Thanks. Your method of installing Win10 is causing the booting files (including BCD) to be installed in the Win7 partition. Bear with me and we'll get the next install "perfect". Do you have another computer to use if you want to post a message during the Win10 install as I'm going to ask you to disconnect all SATA drives except the Win10 SSD?

Couple of questions you haven't answered...

Which partitions are on the Win7 SSD?

Select the Win7 partition in Partition Work, click BCD Edit. With a dot in Menu what Items are already present in the white rectangle.
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