Windows 10 and fast startup and WOL

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Windows 10 and fast startup and WOL

Postby ohaya » Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:20 am

Hi,

Now that I installed Windows 10 on my old desktop, I typically enable wake-on-lan (WOL) on that machine (I did in Windows 7) but it looks like I need to enable fast startup in order for WOL to work (see: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... windows-10).

Is the warning above, about fast startup and Win10 still the case? Is there any option to allow me to enable that safely so I can get WOL working again?

Thanks,
Jim
ohaya
 
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Re: Windows 10 and fast startup and WOL

Postby ohaya » Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:22 am

Hi,

Instead of shutting down the machine, what if I put it to Sleep?

I just tested and if I put it to Sleep, WOL still works, so this may be a good alternative if it is safe.

[NOTE: I do already have hibernation turned off on the machine.]

Would that be a safe alternative? My main goal is to try to minimize power usage when the machine is not in use (and to avoid having to walk across the house to push the power button).

Thanks,
Jim
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Re: Windows 10 and fast startup and WOL

Postby TeraByte Support(PP) » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:20 am

I use Sleep and WOL all the time on one of my Windows 10 systems. Haven't had any issues with it.
Paul Purviance
TeraByte Support
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Re: Windows 10 and fast startup and WOL

Postby CyberSimian » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:15 am

ohaya wrote:
> Instead of shutting down the machine, what if I put it to Sleep?

In my view, you should do the following:

(1) DISABLE Windows "Fast Start".
Note: do not disable the BIOS "Fast Boot" (which is completely different).

(2) ENABLE hibernation.

Now the reasons:

(1) The Terabyte warning about "Fast Start" arises because the system is actually hibernating, and if you hibernate operating system A, and then boot operating system B, and those operating systems happen to share one or more drives (e.g. data drives), you can corrupt the file system on the shared drives. (Yes, I have done this.)

(2) Hibernation gives you fast start-up combined with low power consumption. Sleep gives you a faster start-up, but on many/most systems it consumes significantly more power (enough to completely discharge a laptop battery in 1-2 days, whereas a hibernating laptop will last several weeks).

(3) From the Microsoft document that you linked, hibernation works with WOL on Windows 8, 8.1, and 10, and therefore satisfies your requirement.

(4) The reason to choose hibernation over fast start is what happens when you select "Shutdown" on the "Power" menu:

(a) If "Fast Start" is enabled, "Shutdown" causes the system to hibernate, i.e. it has not shutdown at all, and is in the state that can give corrupted shared drives.

(b) If "Fast Start" is disabled, "Shutdown" really does shutdown the system, and there is no risk of corrupting shared drives.

(c) If you select "Hibernate" on the "Power" menu, you KNOW that the system is hibernating, and so you KNOW that you must not boot another operating system. If you want to boot another OS, you must first start the hibernating system, and then select "Shutdown" to shutdown the system fully. Then you can boot the other OS. Selecting "Restart" is equally safe (it performs a true shutdown).

I run both my laptop and my HTPC (a tower system) using hibernation, with my HTPC using WOL in order to wake it via a remote control.

-- from CyberSimian in the UK
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Re: Windows 10 and fast startup and WOL

Postby TeraByte Support » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:47 pm

and since we're in the BootIt forum, you can use BootNow with the /hibernate
option to force the boot back to the OS.


"CyberSimian" wrote in message news:15455@public.bootitbm...

ohaya wrote:
> Instead of shutting down the machine, what if I put it to Sleep?

In my view, you should do the following:

(1) DISABLE Windows "Fast Start".
Note: do not disable the BIOS "Fast Boot" (which is completely different).

(2) ENABLE hibernation.

Now the reasons:

(1) The Terabyte warning about "Fast Start" arises because the system is
actually hibernating, and if you hibernate operating system A, and then boot
operating system B, and those operating systems happen to share one or more
drives (e.g. data drives), you can corrupt the file system on the shared
drives. (Yes, I have done this.)

(2) Hibernation gives you fast start-up combined with low power consumption.
Sleep gives you a faster start-up, but on many/most systems it consumes
significantly more power (enough to completely discharge a laptop battery in
1-2 days, whereas a hibernating laptop will last several weeks).

(3) From the Microsoft document that you linked, hibernation works with WOL
on Windows 8, 8.1, and 10, and therefore satisfies your requirement.

(4) The reason to choose hibernation over fast start is what happens when
you select "Shutdown" on the "Power" menu:

(a) If "Fast Start" is enabled, "Shutdown" causes the system to hibernate,
i.e. it has not shutdown at all, and is in the state that can give corrupted
shared drives.

(b) If "Fast Start" is disabled, "Shutdown" really does shutdown the system,
and there is no risk of corrupting shared drives.

(c) If you select "Hibernate" on the "Power" menu, you KNOW that the system
is hibernating, and so you KNOW that you must not boot another operating
system. If you want to boot another OS, you must first start the
hibernating system, and then select "Shutdown" to shutdown the system fully.
Then you can boot the other OS. Selecting "Restart" is equally safe (it
performs a true shutdown).

I run both my laptop and my HTPC (a tower system) using hibernation, with my
HTPC using WOL in order to wake it via a remote control.

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

TeraByte Support
 
Posts: 2571
Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 3:37 pm

Re: Windows 10 and fast startup and WOL

Postby DrTeeth » Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:06 am

On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 12:15:02 EDT, just as I was about to take a herb,
CyberSimian disturbed my reverie and wrote:

> The Terabyte warning about "Fast Start" arises because the system is actually hibernating, and if you hibernate operating system A, and then boot operating system B, and those operating systems happen to share one or more drives (e.g. data drives), you can corrupt the file system on the shared drives. (Yes, I have done this.)

So why do you enable hibernation if that and fast start are both the
same thing and both can cause data corruption AIUI? I am not being
"funny", I am genuinely interested.
--
Cheers,

DrT

"If you want to find out what is wrong
with democracy, spend five minutes with
the average voter". - Winston Churchill
DrTeeth
 
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Re: Windows 10 and fast startup and WOL

Postby CyberSimian » Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:14 am

DrTeeth wrote:
> So why do you enable hibernation if that and fast start are both the
> same thing and both can cause data corruption AIUI? I am not being
> "funny", I am genuinely interested.

People who are not tech savvy are likely to think that selecting "Shutdown" on the "Power" menu will shutdown the system. If Fast Start is enabled, Windows is lying to the end user -- the system is not shutdown, it is hibernating (with the risk of corrupted file systems if you boot a different OS).

I believe in calling a trench excavation facility "a trench excavation facility". So if the system is hibernating, reach that state by selecting "Hibernate" on the "Power" menu, not by selecting "Shutdown".

I use hibernation because I am tech savvy, so I know the risks when I hibernate the system. But I still prefer that it is called "Hibernate" and not "Shutdown".

-- from CyberSimian in the UK
CyberSimian
 
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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:13 am

Re: Windows 10 and fast startup and WOL

Postby DrTeeth » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:46 am

On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 06:14:35 EDT, just as I was about to take a herb,
CyberSimian disturbed my reverie and wrote:

>I use hibernation because I am tech savvy, so I know the risks when I hibernate the system.

Fast start = hibernation, hibernation = fast start. They are the same
thing and have the same risks. They are both equally dangerous and
both should be disabled or enabled. I cannot see the justification for
doing one over the other *especially* if somebody is not etch savvy. I
have two versions of windows installed and 9 (IIRC) distros installed
and another couple waiting to go on. The chance of me doing something
absentmindedly in one of the 5 available common data partitions is
quite high, especially being a couple of months from getting my free
bus and tube pass ;-).

Hope you are enjoying a rare good English summer as indeed am I.

Toodle-pip
--
Cheers,

DrT

"If you want to find out what is wrong
with democracy, spend five minutes with
the average voter". - Winston Churchill
DrTeeth
 
Posts: 1143
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:58 am

Re: Windows 10 and fast startup and WOL

Postby TeraByte Support » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:00 am

Having "Shutdown" actually shutdown and "Hibernate" hibernate, reduces any
confusion and reduces the potential of corruption. Use it with bootnow
/hibernate also ensure you can't select another boot item while it was
hibernated.


"DrTeeth" wrote in message news:15482@public.bootitbm...

On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 06:14:35 EDT, just as I was about to take a herb,
CyberSimian disturbed my reverie and wrote:

>I use hibernation because I am tech savvy, so I know the risks when I
>hibernate the system.

Fast start = hibernation, hibernation = fast start. They are the same
thing and have the same risks. They are both equally dangerous and
both should be disabled or enabled. I cannot see the justification for
doing one over the other *especially* if somebody is not etch savvy. I
have two versions of windows installed and 9 (IIRC) distros installed
and another couple waiting to go on. The chance of me doing something
absentmindedly in one of the 5 available common data partitions is
quite high, especially being a couple of months from getting my free
bus and tube pass ;-).

Hope you are enjoying a rare good English summer as indeed am I.

Toodle-pip
--
Cheers,

DrT

"If you want to find out what is wrong
with democracy, spend five minutes with
the average voter". - Winston Churchill

TeraByte Support
 
Posts: 2571
Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 3:37 pm

Re: Windows 10 and fast startup and WOL

Postby DrTeeth » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:39 am

On Sun, 5 Aug 2018 04:00:14 EDT, just as I was about to take a herb,
"TeraByte Support" disturbed my
reverie and wrote:

>Having "Shutdown" actually shutdown and "Hibernate" hibernate, reduces any
>confusion and reduces the potential of corruption.

Not with your average computer user I'd wager. They are just advised
to disable fast start and no mention is made of hibernation itself.

>Use it with bootnow
>/hibernate also ensure you can't select another boot item while it was
>hibernated.

Thanks for the bootnow /hibernate tip.
Only having heard of bootnow, it was not obvious where to find it. I
first looked in the freeware section and then had to find where it was
via the KB.
--
Cheers,

DrT

"If you want to find out what is wrong
with democracy, spend five minutes with
the average voter". - Winston Churchill
DrTeeth
 
Posts: 1143
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:58 am

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