BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

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Re: BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

Postby CyberSimian » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:24 am

Bob Coleman wrote:
> I considered changing to GPT ... but so far I haven't been able to convert
> my disk and am not currently willing to reinstall Windows

Microsoft provide this utility to convert from MBR to GPT without losing data:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... mbr-to-gpt

I have not used it myself, and a user in the Lenovo forum who tried it found that it failed because there was "insufficient space". I am not sure what that means, but I suspect that Windows requires a certain amount of free space in specific locations, in order for this conversion to work whilst Windows is actually running. The solution might be as simple as shrinking your existing partition(s) to provide some free space on the disk, or the requirement might be more subtle than that (i.e. free space at the start of the disk, where the UEFI partition will be placed, and/or at the end of the disk where a copy of the UEFI partition is placed (I think)).

-- from CyberSimian in the UK
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Re: BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

Postby DrTeeth » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:37 am

On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 07:02:43 EDT, just as I was about to take a herb,
CyberSimian disturbed my reverie and wrote:

>DrTeeth wrote:
>> I have been looking for a "GPT for dummies" type of article so I can
>> at least understand something about it.
>
>One of the benefits of using Bootit's EMBR is that you can COMPLETELY hide one operating system from another (by omitting the second operating system from the MBR).
>
>In the past, I think that people have tried to use the "Hide" flag in the MBR. But my understanding is that this does not really hide the partition -- all it does is set a bit flag in the MBR. It is up to the OS that is running to decide whether it is going to honour the setting of that flag. I have a recollection that a running Windows would notice a second Windows installation in another partition, and if you deleted the restore points in the C: drive, it would delete the restore points in the other installation too. (Or did I imagine that?)
>
>Now my understanding of UEFI is that it does not allow gaps in the partition table. So BIBM's trick of omitting entries will no longer work, with the consequence that every partition will be visible to every operating system, and Windows will be able to delete every single restore point in the known universe.
>
>Even if UEFI has a "Hide" flag for each partition, can you really trust an OS (especially Windows) not to fiddle with the hidden partitions?
>
>For the record, my two Lenovos were each shipped with Windows 10 on a GPT disk booting in UEFI mode, but I converted them to EMBR and re-installed Windows 10 (plus Windows 7 and Linux).
>
>-- from CyberSimian in the UK

Good point that. I learnt very early on that the "hide" flag does not
work too well. MSoft OSs spray their <crap> everywhere during an
install. I have even had to exclude my two data drives as an install
could put stuff on one of them as it is an NTFS disk with the most
free space.

I wonder how GPT systems will deal with this scenario.
--
Cheers,

DrT

"If you want to find out what is wrong
with democracy, spend five minutes with
the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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Re: BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

Postby Eric » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:18 am

If you want to hide a partition in a GPT disk from Windows, just change the type of this partition, since Windows only "sees" Basic Data partitions.
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Re: BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

Postby Brian K » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:43 pm

DrT,

You don't "need" GPT. No-one is suggesting you convert your multi-boot system to GPT. That would be a lot of work and the OS wouldn't perform any better. But you are missing out on the fun of using BIU on a GPT disk. Having fun is what makes computers a delight to use.

You have a spare UEFI laptop. You said you were going to buy BIU. Go ahead and have fun.
Brian K
 
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Re: BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

Postby DrTeeth » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:35 pm

On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 17:43:59 EDT, just as I was about to take a herb,
Brian K disturbed my reverie and wrote:

>DrT,
>
>You don't "need" GPT. No-one is suggesting you convert your multi-boot system to GPT. That would be a lot of work and the OS wouldn't perform any better. But you are missing out on the fun of using BIU on a GPT disk. Having fun is what makes computers a delight to use.
>
>You have a spare UEFI laptop. You said you were going to buy BIU. Go ahead and have fun.
>

Hi Brian,

I have many ways to have fun using computers. I still enjoy using
BIBM.

I was going to buy BIU, but not as part of a package that involves me
buying a second (unnecessary) licence for a product I already have.
The "deal" for BIBM users is not a deal at all, but a slight-of-hand
pseudo deal. A 50% discount for two licences, one of which I do not
need is, as we say in the UK, "taking the piss" IMHO.

Rant over...for now.
--
Cheers,

DrT

"If you want to find out what is wrong
with democracy, spend five minutes with
the average voter." - Winston Churchill
DrTeeth
 
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Re: BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

Postby Brian K » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:18 pm

DrTeeth wrote:
> The "deal" for BIBM users is not a deal at all, but a slight-of-hand
> pseudo deal. A 50% discount for two licences, one of which I do not
> need is, as we say in the UK, "taking the piss" IMHO.
>

Hi DrT,

I don't follow your logic. If a newcomer wants to buy BIU he pays $39.95 US. We get it for half price. I like that deal. What do you propose?
Brian K
 
Posts: 1581
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

Postby Bob Coleman » Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:17 pm

CyberSimian wrote:
> Bob Coleman wrote:
> > I considered changing to GPT ... but so far I haven't been able to convert
> > my disk and am not currently willing to reinstall Windows
>
> Microsoft provide this utility to convert from MBR to GPT without losing data:
>
> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... mbr-to-gpt
>
> I have not used it myself, and a user in the Lenovo forum who tried it found that it
> failed because there was "insufficient space". I am not sure what that
> means, but I suspect that Windows requires a certain amount of free space in specific
> locations, in order for this conversion to work whilst Windows is actually running.
> The solution might be as simple as shrinking your existing partition(s) to provide
> some free space on the disk, or the requirement might be more subtle than that (i.e.
> free space at the start of the disk, where the UEFI partition will be placed, and/or
> at the end of the disk where a copy of the UEFI partition is placed (I think)).
>
> -- from CyberSimian in the UK

Thanks. I'll have to see if I ever get motivated to take the risk of trying this just to see if I can do it.
Bob Coleman
 
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Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:58 am

Re: BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

Postby Brian K » Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:30 pm

Bob Coleman wrote:
> I'll have to see if I ever get motivated to take the risk of trying this
> just to see if I can do it.

Bob, I wouldn't be concerned about risk as if it fails you can just restore the entire drive image you recently created of your MBR disk.
Brian K
 
Posts: 1581
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

Postby DrTeeth » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:54 am

On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 20:18:33 EDT, just as I was about to take a herb,
Brian K disturbed my reverie and wrote:

>I don't follow your logic. If a newcomer wants to buy BIU he pays $39.95 US. We get it for half price. I like that deal. What do you propose?

Okay, here we go :-).

The price is for the collection of the two booting programs. I already
have one so the full price of the program I want is half that, viz
$19.98.

What do I pay for the collection with my 50% discount? $22.08
(converting from £ and before adding tax, which is easy to avoid ;-)).
Therefore I am paying the full price for half of the collection.

Q.E.D.
--
Cheers,

DrT

"If you want to find out what is wrong
with democracy, spend five minutes with
the average voter." - Winston Churchill
DrTeeth
 
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Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:58 am

Re: BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

Postby Bob Coleman » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:38 pm

Brian K wrote:
> Bob Coleman wrote:
> > I'll have to see if I ever get motivated to take the risk of trying this
> > just to see if I can do it.
>
> Bob, I wouldn't be concerned about risk as if it fails you can just restore the
> entire drive image you recently created of your MBR disk.

You're right about that. Even though I'm always a bit hesitant, I've actually done that several times, so I guess it's really more about benefit vs effort rather than risk.
Bob Coleman
 
Posts: 558
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:58 am

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