BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

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BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

Postby ohaya » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:59 am

Hi,

So I just bought the Bootit collection, because I have a new Dell 13 5000 laptop.

Normally, up to now, I switch the BIOS to legacy and just run BING or BIBM, but now that there is Bootit-UEFI, I am wondering:

- Why should I use UEFI and Bootit-UEFI instead of switching the BIOS to legacy and using BIBM?

- If I do switch to UEFI and Bootit-UEFI, what kind of 'gotchas' will I be running into? For example, can I read from DVDs if the BIOS is set to UEFI and Secure Boot is enabled?

Thanks,
Jim
ohaya
 
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Re: BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

Postby ohaya » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:10 pm

FYI, I decided to set the BIOS to legacy and use regular BIBM...
ohaya
 
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Re: BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

Postby CyberSimian » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:13 am

ohaya wrote:
> Why should I use UEFI and Bootit-UEFI instead of switching the BIOS to
> legacy and using BIBM?

(1) If you want to install a disk bigger than 2TB, you have to format it as GPT in order to be able to use all of the space. If you want to boot from it, you have to boot in UEFI mode (you cannot boot a GPT disk in MBR mode).

(2) Most/all manufacturers issue updated BIOS from time to time. Some manufacturers provide only a Windows EXE that must run in UEFI mode. If you installed Windows in MBR mode, you wouldn't be able to update your BIOS, because the BIOS Update EXE runs only in UEFI mode (this may or may not matter to you). Lenovo is like this (I have two). I don't know what tools Dell provide for updating the BIOS.

-- from CyberSimian in the UK
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Re: BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

Postby ohaya » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:44 am

CyberSimian,

Thanks for the info.

For my laptops at least (mostly older HPs and Toshibas, and last 2), I probably will never use a disk bigger than 2TB (especially as boot device).

I'm not sure about the latter item for Dells. For my older M7510, the BIOS updates comes as EXEs, but they still run from MBR mode. For the newer Inspiron 5000 13, thankfully I ran the BIOS EXE while I still had the original Windows 10 (on UEFI), so I dodged the bullet on that one for now ...
ohaya
 
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Re: BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

Postby DrTeeth » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:35 am

On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 08:44:36 EDT, just as I was about to take a herb,
ohaya disturbed my reverie and wrote:

>I probably will never use a disk bigger than 2TB (especially as boot device).

I have 3 2TB disks in this PC. When I upgrade, they will move over*. I
have 9 Linux distros and two windows installs on my OS disk with room
to spare. Loads of room on the other 2 as well. I'll be dead before I
need GPT.

*It is fine to transfer an OS disk between computers. It does not
cause any problems, except with Win XP if third party chipset drivers
were installed.
--
Cheers,

DrT

"If you want to find out what is wrong
with democracy, spend five minutes with
the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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Re: BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

Postby Brian K » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:10 pm

DrTeeth wrote:
> I'll be dead before I need GPT.
>

DrT,

I'm used to GPT/UEFI now. It's as "easy" as MBR. Just different.

One advantage of BIU over BIBM is in the installation of OS on Alternate HDs.This is how it's done with BIBM...

https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=339

With BIU you can just install the new OS on the Alternate HD. No need to disconnect HDs etc. Windows or Linux OS.
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Location: NSW, Australia

Re: BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

Postby DrTeeth » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:52 pm

On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 19:10:42 EDT, just as I was about to take a herb,
Brian K disturbed my reverie and wrote:

>DrTeeth wrote:
>> I'll be dead before I need GPT.
>>
>
>DrT,
>
>I'm used to GPT/UEFI now. It's as "easy" as MBR. Just different.
>
>One advantage of BIU over BIBM is in the installation of OS on Alternate HDs.This is how it's done with BIBM...
>
>[
> https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=339
>](https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=339)
>
>With BIU you can just install the new OS on the Alternate HD. No need to disconnect HDs etc. Windows or Linux OS.

Hi Brian,

I do not need anything of what GPT/UEFI brings to the table. MBR does
me just fine. Plus, I do not need two BIBM licences ;-).
--
Cheers,

DrT

"If you want to find out what is wrong
with democracy, spend five minutes with
the average voter." - Winston Churchill
DrTeeth
 
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Re: BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

Postby Bob Coleman » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:29 pm

I don't really "need" GPT either. I considered changing to GPT mostly as an academic exercise, but so far I haven't been able to convert my disk and am not currently willing to reinstall Windows and everything else just as an academic exercise.
Bob Coleman
 
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Re: BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

Postby DrTeeth » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:54 am

On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 20:29:12 EDT, just as I was about to take a herb,
Bob Coleman disturbed my reverie and wrote:

>I don't really "need" GPT either. I considered changing to GPT mostly as an academic exercise, but so far I haven't been able to convert my disk and am not currently willing to reinstall Windows and everything else just as an academic exercise.

That is the sort of thing I would do. If I see a BIG red button that
says "Do not press under any circumstances" or "Do not exceed stated
dose", I take such things as mere suggestions and have to see what
happens...

I have been looking for a "GPT for dummies" type of article so I can
at least understand something about it. I have one PC that is likely
to be GPT. I'll back it up and then convert it to MBR so I can use my
copy of BIBM. It's a small Lenovo laptop with a touch screen and an
SSD.
--
Cheers,

DrT

"If you want to find out what is wrong
with democracy, spend five minutes with
the average voter." - Winston Churchill
DrTeeth
 
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Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:58 am

Re: BIBM vs Bootit-UEFI on new laptop - which one?

Postby CyberSimian » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:02 am

DrTeeth wrote:
> I have been looking for a "GPT for dummies" type of article so I can
> at least understand something about it.

One of the benefits of using Bootit's EMBR is that you can COMPLETELY hide one operating system from another (by omitting the second operating system from the MBR).

In the past, I think that people have tried to use the "Hide" flag in the MBR. But my understanding is that this does not really hide the partition -- all it does is set a bit flag in the MBR. It is up to the OS that is running to decide whether it is going to honour the setting of that flag. I have a recollection that a running Windows would notice a second Windows installation in another partition, and if you deleted the restore points in the C: drive, it would delete the restore points in the other installation too. (Or did I imagine that?)

Now my understanding of UEFI is that it does not allow gaps in the partition table. So BIBM's trick of omitting entries will no longer work, with the consequence that every partition will be visible to every operating system, and Windows will be able to delete every single restore point in the known universe.

Even if UEFI has a "Hide" flag for each partition, can you really trust an OS (especially Windows) not to fiddle with the hidden partitions?

For the record, my two Lenovos were each shipped with Windows 10 on a GPT disk booting in UEFI mode, but I converted them to EMBR and re-installed Windows 10 (plus Windows 7 and Linux).

-- from CyberSimian in the UK
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