Uninstalling Bootitbm

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Re: Uninstalling Bootitbm

Postby TeraByte Support(PP) » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:51 am

computrdummy wrote:
> ***I can only repeat what I told you in my previous posts. I followed the
> uninstall procedure to the letter and deleted the embr. The mouse stopped
> working on the next boot. WHen I then reinstalled bibm with the
> embr-standard install, the mouse miraculously starts working again. Again I
> have no idea why your program is effecting the mouse function, but it does
> and apparently it does not uninstall clean. I had the mouse function on the
> win7 boot but once I uninstalled BIBM the mouse was gone.

When you say you "deleted the embr" I assume you mean you deleted the BootIt partition. BIBM does use a mouse driver to provide mouse support in BIBM on systems that support it. This driver would not be in use when BIBM isn't running. USB and mouse support would depend on the system and whatever else you have booted (BIBM, Windows, other recovery media, etc.). If USB and/or mouse usage is lost when BIBM is uninstalled, something else is going on.

> ***Is the above NEW instructions not contained in your KB article on how to
> uninstall? Because I followed the procedure TB gives to the letter so was
> there something missing in their article on how to uninstall? The uninstall
> SHOULD have resulted in a boot by windows 7, same as if there was not BIBM
> to begin with. But it did not. So please tell me are these new additional
> instructions not given in the article by TB or what?

These instructions are to help resolve the issue. You don't say if you even tried it. Those particular steps are not currently listed in the manual removal instructions, but will be added to check (as noted in the normal uninstall). However, they are in the article in the prior section (between normal uninstall and manual uninstall) and also mentioned it in my first reply to this thread. Have you tried doing a normal uninstall from BIBM?

> **The other program whose images pre-uninstall of bibm worked, no longer
> work once bibm is "uninstalled" due to the "missing EMBR
> exiting" error This program restores the "system" which I am
> guessing includes everything in the boot C: mbr0 partition. Apparently it
> looks for the embr which is no longer there and I get that message which
> SHOULD be a message from BIBM. I cannot imagine another company would have
> the SAME exact error message that BIBM gives when the EMBR is missing. So
> now If I ever actually fully get rid of BIBM (thank God) I will have to
> reimage the drive using the other program over again.

As far as I know, no other imaging program directly supports the EMBR. They would only be restoring or not restoring based if whether or not they restore the MBR code and/or Track 0 data. I already provided instructions to reset the MBR code.

> I will check to see if the mouse is working after I uninstall BIBM when I
> boot from the install USB, but I imagine the mouse driver code is contained
> in the BIBM usb install usb, so I don't know what that proves. Point is the
> program is messing with the mouse drivers or usb port where it should not
> be since I have supposedly already installed it.Or, Probably not a clean
> uninstall, fault of BIBM.

You had said that the mouse wouldn't work unless the EMBR existed. When BIBM is uninstalled and you boot to the BIBM UFD the EMBR won't exist. If the mouse works then it shows that the mouse works when the EMBR doesn't exist. It's just a troubleshooting step to help provide information on the issue. BIBM only uses its mouse driver. Anything booted is going to have to provide its own mouse support. For example, if you configure BIBM with no mouse support then the mouse won't work in it. But booting into Windows doesn't care about any BIOS/DOS level mouse/USB drivers as it provides its own drivers and support and the mouse would function normally.

> I will try your procedure you suggest above. At this point I just want to
> get rid of bibm as it has caused too many problems. I have backed up my
> data partitions with the new program and I may have to wipe the drive to
> get rid of bibm, another huge time consumer.

It is not necessary to spend a long time wiping the drive. In this type of situation it's only necessary to wipe the start of the drive (MBR and Track 0). You can do this by starting the wipe on the drive and letting it run for a few seconds (usually, even 10 seconds is more than enough) and then cancel it.
Paul Purviance
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Re: Uninstalling Bootitbm

Postby computrdummy » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:20 pm

Replying inline again below &&&&&

computrdummy wrote:
> ***I can only repeat what I told you in my previous posts. I followed the
> uninstall procedure to the letter and deleted the embr. The mouse stopped
> working on the next boot. WHen I then reinstalled bibm with the
> embr-standard install, the mouse miraculously starts working again. Again I
> have no idea why your program is effecting the mouse function, but it does
> and apparently it does not uninstall clean. I had the mouse function on the
> win7 boot but once I uninstalled BIBM the mouse was gone.

When you say you "deleted the embr" I assume you mean you deleted the BootIt partition. BIBM does use a mouse driver to provide mouse support in BIBM on systems that support it. This driver would not be in use when BIBM isn't running. USB and mouse support would depend on the system and whatever else you have booted (BIBM, Windows, other recovery media, etc.). If USB and/or mouse usage is lost when BIBM is uninstalled, something else is going on.

&&& I was given the option of deleting the EMBR partition created by the bibm install, which I did. Mouse gone. On reninstall of BIBM, mouse comes back. So the uninstall is effecting mouse function.



> ***Is the above NEW instructions not contained in your KB article on how to
> uninstall? Because I followed the procedure TB gives to the letter so was
> there something missing in their article on how to uninstall? The uninstall
> SHOULD have resulted in a boot by windows 7, same as if there was not BIBM
> to begin with. But it did not. So please tell me are these new additional
> instructions not given in the article by TB or what?

These instructions are to help resolve the issue. You don't say if you even tried it. Those particular steps are not currently listed in the manual removal instructions, but will be added to check (as noted in the normal uninstall). However, they are in the article in the prior section (between normal uninstall and manual uninstall) and also mentioned it in my first reply to this thread. Have you tried doing a normal uninstall from BIBM?

&&&I will try it and report back. But if this is necessary why is it not mentioned in the uninstall article by TB?

> **The other program whose images pre-uninstall of bibm worked, no longer
> work once bibm is "uninstalled" due to the "missing EMBR
> exiting" error This program restores the "system" which I am
> guessing includes everything in the boot C: mbr0 partition. Apparently it
> looks for the embr which is no longer there and I get that message which
> SHOULD be a message from BIBM. I cannot imagine another company would have
> the SAME exact error message that BIBM gives when the EMBR is missing. So
> now If I ever actually fully get rid of BIBM (thank God) I will have to
> reimage the drive using the other program over again.

As far as I know, no other imaging program directly supports the EMBR. They would only be restoring or not restoring based if whether or not they restore the MBR code and/or Track 0 data. I already provided instructions to reset the MBR code.

&&&I will try it, but that should be in the article on uninstall if that is a factor.

> I will check to see if the mouse is working after I uninstall BIBM when I
> boot from the install USB, but I imagine the mouse driver code is contained
> in the BIBM usb install usb, so I don't know what that proves. Point is the
> program is messing with the mouse drivers or usb port where it should not
> be since I have supposedly already installed it.Or, Probably not a clean
> uninstall, fault of BIBM.

You had said that the mouse wouldn't work unless the EMBR existed. When BIBM is uninstalled and you boot to the BIBM UFD the EMBR won't exist. If the mouse works then it shows that the mouse works when the EMBR doesn't exist. It's just a troubleshooting step to help provide information on the issue. BIBM only uses its mouse driver. Anything booted is going to have to provide its own mouse support. For example, if you configure BIBM with no mouse support then the mouse won't work in it. But booting into Windows doesn't care about any BIOS/DOS level mouse/USB drivers as it provides its own drivers and support and the mouse would function normally.

WIN7 has no usb3.0 mouse support or drivers. The mouse was plugged into a usb 3.0 port so I was assuming that the mouse somehow has it's own usb 3.0 capability. But I am now thinking the BIBM is providing mouse support when windows 7 boots. The mouse is GONE in windows 7 IF the bibm is "uninstalled" and the EMBR partition for bibm is deleted. When reinstalled the mouse function on usb 3.0 comes back. So I am guessing bibm is doing something to the mouse/usb 3.0 function. Maybe related to bibm drivers used with the usb install stick. I will try your suggestion on the win7 mbr and report back. Thanks for your support.

> I will try your procedure you suggest above. At this point I just want to
> get rid of bibm as it has caused too many problems. I have backed up my
> data partitions with the new program and I may have to wipe the drive to
> get rid of bibm, another huge time consumer.

It is not necessary to spend a long time wiping the drive. In this type of situation it's only necessary to wipe the start of the drive (MBR and Track 0). You can do this by starting the wipe on the drive and letting it run for a few seconds (usually, even 10 seconds is more than enough) and then cancel it.
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computrdummy
 
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Re: Uninstalling Bootitbm

Postby TeraByte Support(PP) » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:02 pm

computrdummy wrote:
> WIN7 has no usb3.0 mouse support or drivers. The mouse was plugged into a usb 3.0
> port so I was assuming that the mouse somehow has it's own usb 3.0 capability. But I
> am now thinking the BIBM is providing mouse support when windows 7 boots. The mouse
> is GONE in windows 7 IF the bibm is "uninstalled" and the EMBR partition
> for bibm is deleted. When reinstalled the mouse function on usb 3.0 comes back. So I
> am guessing bibm is doing something to the mouse/usb 3.0 function. Maybe related to
> bibm drivers used with the usb install stick. I will try your suggestion on the win7
> mbr and report back. Thanks for your support.

Does the BIOS have an option for Legacy USB support (in general) or for specific devices (like keyboard/mouse)? It may affect support depending on how those are configured. Maybe enable if not enabled or set to USB 2 if available and try it. Perhaps, and this is just a guess, BIBM accessing the mouse on the USB 3 port (or just checking for USB devices) puts the port in a mode that remains when Windows boots (WIndows doesn't have drivers for it and doesn't reinitialize, for example). If that's the case, it would still be a BIOS/Windows issue. Even if the USB 3 port is then usable it wouldn't be in USB 3 mode without proper Windows drivers (probably running in USB 2/Legacy mode).

Windows 7 doesn't include USB 3 drivers, but there are Windows 7 USB 3 drivers for certain chipsets and controllers. If the board you're using doesn't support any of those drivers then you could consider a USB 3 PCIe card with a supported controller.
Paul Purviance
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Re: Uninstalling Bootitbm

Postby computrdummy » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:09 pm

Ok, it's just as I thought and said earlier. Your program is supplying drivers (or enabling somehow) to the USB 3.0 port even though windows has no USB 3.0 support (the ports do not work for anything else except the mouse-logitech that requires no drivers)

Here is what I did as per your instructions:

1) booted to the bibm install stick. Mouse is working.
2) changed the mbr to win7 as per bob's suggestion
3) made no other changes-bibm installed but as I said in other posts you cannot add os to boot edit due to "cannot write data to disk" bibm error, must use direct boot menu)
4)rebooted to hard drive-boot now goes directly to windows7 no direct boot menu
5) mouse does not work on 3.0 port
6) rebooted again to bibm stick, was given these options:

a) reactivate bibm
b)capture mbr
c) access bibm partition
d) reinstall bibm

Chose a) reactivate bibm

7)rebooted, direct boot menu appears again, boot into c:win7

8) voila mouse is back again.

Re TB question the bios is set to legacy for all devices legacy FIRST. There is no separate setting for mouse,etc-this covers all devices

So conclusion is EMBR(bibm installed)must be present to get usb 3.0 mouse support for logitech mouse (requires no drivers) on win7. Don't know why cuz the ports do not work for anything else due to win7 not having native usb 3.0 support. I tried 4 or 5 driver install packages from lenovo, MS and amd. NONE worked. That is why I am navigating or TRYING to win8.1 or god forbid spyware win10.

I mean no offense and I do appreciate your attempt to help. But I have to say at this point you guys don't know your own program.
If you did you would be able to explain why bibm gives usb port 3.0 support to simple logitech mouse. Or can you? I await and am all ears.
computrdummy
 
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Re: Uninstalling Bootitbm

Postby DrTeeth » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:50 am

On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 22:09:13 PDT, just as I was about to take a herb,
computrdummy disturbed my reverie and wrote:


>I mean no offense and I do appreciate your attempt to help. But I have to say at this point you guys don't know your own program.

So don't ask them for any more support then!
--
Cheers,

DrT

** Amateurs built the Ark, but professionals built the Titanic.**
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Re: Uninstalling Bootitbm

Postby computrdummy » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:23 am

I guess if you don't know what you're selling nor how it works, then only a smart ass reply is available to you.
computrdummy
 
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Re: Uninstalling Bootitbm

Postby computrdummy » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:26 am

I will take my support questions to other forums so that others have alternatives to such a lame program.

Also users with laptops should note that if you choose to run windows later than 7 you will shorten the life of your battery and laptop since you will be unable to use hibernate function with TB products due to their excuse that it's a "windows problem"
computrdummy
 
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Re: Uninstalling Bootitbm

Postby TeraByte Support » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:24 pm

On 10/17/2020 10:09 PM, computrdummy wrote:
> Ok, it's just as I thought and said earlier. Your program is supplying drivers (or enabling somehow) to the USB 3.0 port even though windows has no USB 3.0 support (the ports do not work for anything else except the mouse-logitech that requires no drivers)


There is no direct USB3 (XHCI) support in the program whatsoever. That
means the USB bus option won't show any drives attached to a USB3 port
in partition work. It is up to the BIOS to provide support and most
have an option to do so if attached at boot (they show up under the BIOS
bus option).

https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=407

USB Mouse support (in any form, USB 1,2,3) only comes from the BIOS and
that option is typically under the device options for USB as a "legacy"
support type option (sometimes (rarely) it will have disk, keyboard,
mouse as specific items for legacy support).

That "legacy" support only deals with the mouse/keyboard until a
protected mode operating system loads and loads its own USB drivers and
takes over USB. Windows/Linux don't use the BIOS USB mouse support (nor
keyboard support once the OS is loaded).

If you're having a problem, a cold boot, unplug system from wall for 30
seconds and turning on may help. If you're having a timing issue, you
may want to ensure your BIOS is not in a quick boot mode, but instead
full boot which will also initialize all devices instead of skipping some.

TeraByte Support
 
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Re: Uninstalling Bootitbm

Postby computrdummy » Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:09 pm

Reply inline below: &&&&&&&&&&&&

Re: Uninstalling Bootitbm

Unread postby TeraByte Support » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:24 pm
On 10/17/2020 10:09 PM, computrdummy wrote:
> Ok, it's just as I thought and said earlier. Your program is supplying drivers (or enabling somehow) to the USB 3.0 port even though windows has no USB 3.0 support (the ports do not work for anything else except the mouse-logitech that requires no drivers)


There is no direct USB3 (XHCI) support in the program whatsoever. That
means the USB bus option won't show any drives attached to a USB3 port
in partition work. It is up to the BIOS to provide support and most
have an option to do so if attached at boot (they show up under the BIOS
bus option).

https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=407

&&&&As I said previously the only setting in bios is to enable legacy devices, which usually includes usb 2.0 ports. The bios is set to boot mbr, not uefi (or whatever the hell it is).

So far no one has been able to explain why it is installing BIBM with it's accompanying embr lets me use a logitech mouse on usb 3.0 on a OS that does not natively support usb 3.0.

&&&You're saying its the bios? Well if it's the bios and the bios is not changed, why is it when I uninstall BIBM OR delete the EMBR that I lose that mouse capability on usb 3.0 port? THe bios has not been changed, the only change is removal of BIBM. So your program IS enabling mouse on usb 3.0. What other plausible explaination can you give?

USB Mouse support (in any form, USB 1,2,3) only comes from the BIOS and
that option is typically under the device options for USB as a "legacy"
support type option (sometimes (rarely) it will have disk, keyboard,
mouse as specific items for legacy support).

That "legacy" support only deals with the mouse/keyboard until a
protected mode operating system loads and loads its own USB drivers and
takes over USB. Windows/Linux don't use the BIOS USB mouse support (nor
keyboard support once the OS is loaded).

&&&&Denying it is not an explaination. YOu can deny it all day long, I have the proof your program enables usb 3.0 mouse support when installed and takes it away when uninstalled. So far no explaination from TB or the forum.


If you're having a problem, a cold boot, unplug system from wall for 30
seconds and turning on may help. If you're having a timing issue, you
may want to ensure your BIOS is not in a quick boot mode, but instead
full boot which will also initialize all devices instead of skipping some.

&&&The problem is with your BIBM. You cannot use hibernate. Therefore unless you have some other form of sleep mode that does not corrupt my data partitions as your numerous warnings admit, then the battery is drained full tilt due to the fact BIBM cannot handle hibernate without screwing up your data and other partitions. TB says its a windows problem. Unless your newer New Gen programs fix this it's YOUR problem not windows problem. This means lots of cold boots and battery drain putting a stress on the laptop that will lead to fast failure.

I now have both 8.1 and windows in a dual boot config. Don't ask me how I did it cuz BIBM was no help.
I am now required to do like a double boot-first to BIBM direct boot menu then to Windows boot menu to choose the OS to boot. I tried adding both to boot edit but when I try to boot from that, I get "NO OS installed, load boot something or other-which does nothing.

Any idea why that is happening? This means I will have to keep BIBM around until I learn 8.1 and decided to keep it-it's much better than win7 so far. If I switch to win8.1 I can nuke my win7 partition and finally get rid of BIBM (good riddance). I hope to be able to use what so far is a FASTER and better imaging program and install any dual boots using tutorials for windows/linux. Thanks again for your replies.
computrdummy
 
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Re: Uninstalling Bootitbm

Postby Bob Coleman » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:56 am

My understanding of partitions getting corrupted in conjunction with hibernating is that the cause is booting multiple OSs and one OS not completely shutting down before partitions/disks are accessed by a different OS. This is not a problem with BIBM per se. It may seem to have something to do with BIBM because the whole purpose of BIBM is to boot multiple OSs on the same hardware.
Bob Coleman
 
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