Vexing issues with booting BootIt BM install media

User discussion and information resource forum for BootIt Bare Metal.

Vexing issues with booting BootIt BM install media

Postby Ambertus » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:47 am

At the outset I wish to make it clear that in this thread I am *NOT* blaming or criticizing any Terabyte product for these vexing issues I'm about to describe! The source of these problems very much seems to lie elsewhere. However, since these problems primarily involve BootIt Bare Metal, this is still the best place to seek assistance.

As a long-time Terabyte customer, I know my way around BootIt BM fairly well (though I certainly don't claim to be an expert), and I've used makedisk many times over the years to create bootable install media for Bare Metal (or NG before it) and I have had no problems booting from those install media in the past.

But for the last several weeks now, I've never been able to boot any Bare Metal boot CD on either of my two newest desktop computers, and it's driving me crazy!

The two new computers I'm having problems with are both home-built machines based on ASUS motherboards: The first was an ASUS Z87-A and the second is an Z97-A (technically, they're not two separate computers; what happened is that I grew so frustrated with the Z87 that I replaced it with the Z97, but the problems remain identical). The symptom is simply that no matter what I try, the BootIt install CD absolutely will NOT boot up on either mobo! The symptoms are always the same: There's no doubt at all that the optical drive(s) are actually reading the disc and trying to boot from it, but all that ever happens is that the screen will show two carriage return/line feeds and nothing else ever happens, no matter how long I wait.

Naturally, I spent a lot of time trying to troubleshoot this weird problem. Here's a list of the things I've tried that had no success whatsoever:

(1): The machine has always had two different optical drives (both of which use SATA connections). One's a Plextor PX-89 CD/DVD reader/writer, and the second is a Pioneer BluRay reader/writer. But it doesn't matter which one I try to boot the install CD on, because the results are always identical.

(2): The next thing I tried was using different SATA controllers to connect the drives to the computer. I've tried the following controllers:

(2.a) Vantec 4-Channel 6-Port SATA 6Gb/s PCIe RAID Host Card with HyperDuo Technology (UGT-ST644R) - Marvell 88SE9230-NNA2 chip & drivers
(2.b) Syba/IOCrest SATA II 4 x PCI RAID Host Controller Card SY-PCI40010 - Silicon Image 3124 chip & drivers
(2.c) Vantec 2-Port SATA 150 PCI Host Card with RAID (UGT-ST220R) - Silicon Image 3152A chip & drivers
(2.d) Promise TX4 SATA300 - Promise PDC40718-GP and AMIC A290021TL-70F chips
(2.e) Onboard Intel ® Z97 Express Chipset with RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 and Intel ® Rapid Storage Technology 13 support
(2.f) Onboard Intel ® Z87 Express Chipset with RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 and Intel ® Rapid Storage Technology 12 support

But again, no matter which controller I used, the BootIt BM install CD would NOT boot in either optical drive! I mean, c'mon, 6 different controllers and it still won't work?

(3) The other things I tried were:

(3.a) Tried booting other bootable optical discs in both of my drives; but every single bootable CD/DVD I've tried boots perfectly EXCEPT BootIt BM.
(3.b) Tried burning on different optical media (tried different Verbatim CD-R and CD-RW media & special imported media (can't recall name) & Polaroid & Maxell), always at slow speeds with full verification.
(3.c) Change SATA cables and confirm they're securely connected.
(3.d) Try both legacy and UEFI booting.
(3.e) Tried booting older BootIt versions (previous to 1.28a), but none of them booted either.
(3.f) Downgrade the system BIOS (they were otherwise always the latest versions) since nothing else worked.

Now, a good argument can be made that all of those absurdly exhaustive tests and modifications and re-tests were actually quite stupid of me. Why? Because every one of those optical BootIt BM install discs booted up perfectly fine in my older machines! But they will absolutely NEVER boot on my newer machines, all of which have UEFI BIOSes (although I have no idea if that's relevant, since like I pointed out above, the discs won't boot in UEFI mode either).

So the obvious alternative is to use makedisk to create a bootable flash drive, right? No, because then we come to yet another vexing boot issue: Although the new machines always boot fine from the BootIt flash drive, the main thing I need to do with BootIt currently is to perform partition work and/or edit the BCD stores (I'll explain why below). Yet no matter what I try, whenever I boot from the flash drive, the flash drive is ALWAYS treated by BootIt as HD zero! Therefore, one key problem is that, if I try to edit the BCD to fix some hard drive boot problems, for just one example, the HD numbers in the BCD entries are all WRONG! The bootable hard drive that should be HD zero is identified as HD one, which means that any edits I try to make are all going to be wrong the next time I boot!

Let me explain why I need to do these things: I'm also currently having repeated difficulties booting 64-bit Windows 7 SP1 on the hard drive I wish to use. For the last week or so the Windows boot manager/loader too often finds something about the boot drive and/or boot partition that it apparently doesn't like, and the symptoms are curiously identical to what I see when I try to boot up the BootIt install CD: The screen remains blank except for the same two carriage return/line-feeds, and nothing else ever happens. Yet the miserable Windows "Startup Repair" process almost always "fixes" things wrong! (This disastrous piece of crapware makes some truly stupid decisions in my experience, based as it is on a very sloppily designed combination of also-dumb Microsoft command line tools that weren't very good in the first place.)

Now, BootIt BM v1.28a is already installed in it's own custom FAT-12 partition at the front of the hard disk in question. So why am I trying to boot from the install media again? Here's why: The boot process doesn't always get there (i.e., too often the BootIt screen simply doesn't show up). In the relatively rare instances when it does show up properly, I'm able to edit the BCD store on the Windows boot partition to fix the stupid blunders that Microsoft's truly atrocious "Startup Repair" process keeps making. After which, Windows will boot correctly from that hard disk. But when BootIt doesn't show up (or when Windows fails to boot correctly), I desperately need to get into BootIt's BCD editor to fix things up again so that I CAN boot Windows again. But if I can't boot up from the BootIt CD (even though I CAN boot up from the flash drive), there's nothing I can do to fix the Windows boot failures!!

Ergo, I desperately NEED to resolve whatever problem or problems is preventing me from EVER booting from the BootIt install CD.

I'm sorry I couldn't compress this OP down to a few sentences, but if I did, there would be too many questions asking me to try all the things I've already tried and answer all the questions I've already answered in this admittedly very long post, so I hope I will be forgiven my verbosity ;)

Please advise me on what I can try to resolve this vexing situation.


My considerable thanks goes out to anyone who had the patience to actually read all this!
Ambertus
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Vexing issues with booting BootIt BM install media

Postby TeraByte Support » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:38 am

The IFD and BIBM CD boots in 1.44 or 2.88 emulation mode. Most CD's boot in
non-emulation mode. So could be the BIOS implementation of CD booting in
emulation mode wasn't fully tested or not fully implemented as it should be.
Of course has to boot in non-UEFI mode.

The HD number doesn't affect BCDEdit.



"Ambertus" wrote in message news:8995@public.bootitbm...

At the outset I wish to make it clear that in this thread I am *NOT* blaming
or criticizing any Terabyte product for these vexing issues I'm about to
describe! The source of these problems very much seems to lie elsewhere.
However, since these problems primarily involve BootIt Bare Metal, this is
still the best place to seek assistance.

As a long-time Terabyte customer, I know my way around BootIt BM fairly well
(though I certainly don't claim to be an expert), and I've used makedisk
many times over the years to create bootable install media for Bare Metal
(or NG before it) and I have had no problems booting from those install
media in the past.

But for the last several weeks now, I've never been able to boot any Bare
Metal boot CD on either of my two newest desktop computers, and it's driving
me crazy!

The two new computers I'm having problems with are both home-built machines
based on ASUS motherboards: The first was an ASUS Z87-A and the second is an
Z97-A (technically, they're not two separate computers; what happened is
that I grew so frustrated with the Z87 that I replaced it with the Z97, but
the problems remain identical). The symptom is simply that no matter what I
try, the BootIt install CD absolutely will NOT boot up on either mobo! The
symptoms are always the same: There's no doubt at all that the optical
drive(s) are actually reading the disc and trying to boot from it, but all
that ever happens is that the screen will show two carriage return/line
feeds and nothing else ever happens, no matter how long I wait.

Naturally, I spent a lot of time trying to troubleshoot this weird problem.
Here's a list of the things I've tried that had no success whatsoever:

(1): The machine has always had two different optical drives (both of which
use SATA connections). One's a Plextor PX-89 CD/DVD reader/writer, and the
second is a Pioneer BluRay reader/writer. But it doesn't matter which one I
try to boot the install CD on, because the results are always identical.

(2): The next thing I tried was using different SATA controllers to connect
the drives to the computer. I've tried the following controllers:

(2.a) Vantec 4-Channel 6-Port SATA 6Gb/s PCIe RAID Host Card with HyperDuo
Technology (UGT-ST644R) - Marvell 88SE9230-NNA2 chip & drivers
(2.b) Syba/IOCrest SATA II 4 x PCI RAID Host Controller Card SY-PCI40010 -
Silicon Image 3124 chip & drivers
(2.c) Vantec 2-Port SATA 150 PCI Host Card with RAID (UGT-ST220R) - Silicon
Image 3152A chip & drivers
(2.d) Promise TX4 SATA300 - Promise PDC40718-GP and AMIC A290021TL-70F
chips
(2.e) Onboard Intel ? Z97 Express Chipset with RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 and Intel ?
Rapid Storage Technology 13 support
(2.f) Onboard Intel ? Z87 Express Chipset with RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 and Intel ?
Rapid Storage Technology 12 support

But again, no matter which controller I used, the BootIt BM install CD would
NOT boot in either optical drive! I mean, c'mon, 6 different controllers
and it still won't work?

(3) The other things I tried were:

(3.a) Tried booting other bootable optical discs in both of my drives; but
every single bootable CD/DVD I've tried boots perfectly EXCEPT BootIt BM.
(3.b) Tried burning on different optical media (tried different Verbatim
CD-R and CD-RW media & special imported media (can't recall name) & Polaroid
& Maxell), always at slow speeds with full verification.
(3.c) Change SATA cables and confirm they're securely connected.
(3.d) Try both legacy and UEFI booting.
(3.e) Tried booting older BootIt versions (previous to 1.28a), but none of
them booted either.
(3.f) Downgrade the system BIOS (they were otherwise always the latest
versions) since nothing else worked.

Now, a good argument can be made that all of those absurdly exhaustive tests
and modifications and re-tests were actually quite stupid of me. Why?
Because every one of those optical BootIt BM install discs booted up
perfectly fine in my older machines! But they will absolutely NEVER boot on
my newer machines, all of which have UEFI BIOSes (although I have no idea if
that's relevant, since like I pointed out above, the discs won't boot in
UEFI mode either).

So the obvious alternative is to use makedisk to create a bootable flash
drive, right? No, because then we come to yet another vexing boot issue:
Although the new machines always boot fine from the BootIt flash drive, the
main thing I need to do with BootIt currently is to perform partition work
and/or edit the BCD stores (I'll explain why below). Yet no matter what I
try, whenever I boot from the flash drive, the flash drive is ALWAYS treated
by BootIt as HD zero! Therefore, one key problem is that, if I try to edit
the BCD to fix some hard drive boot problems, for just one example, the HD
numbers in the BCD entries are all WRONG! The bootable hard drive that
should be HD zero is identified as HD one, which means that any edits I try
to make are all going to be wrong the next time I boot!

Let me explain why I need to do these things: I'm also currently having
repeated difficulties booting 64-bit Windows 7 SP1 on the hard drive I wish
to use. For the last week or so the Windows boot manager/loader too often
finds something about the boot drive and/or boot partition that it
apparently doesn't like, and the symptoms are curiously identical to what I
see when I try to boot up the BootIt install CD: The screen remains blank
except for the same two carriage return/line-feeds, and nothing else ever
happens. Yet the miserable Windows "Startup Repair" process almost always
"fixes" things wrong! (This disastrous piece of crapware makes some truly
stupid decisions in my experience, based as it is on a very sloppily
designed combination of also-dumb Microsoft command line tools that weren't
very good in the first place.)

Now, BootIt BM v1.28a is already installed in it's own custom FAT-12
partition at the front of the hard disk in question. So why am I trying to
boot from the install media again? Here's why: The boot process doesn't
always get there (i.e., too often the BootIt screen simply doesn't show up).
In the relatively rare instances when it does show up properly, I'm able to
edit the BCD store on the Windows boot partition to fix the stupid blunders
that Microsoft's truly atrocious "Startup Repair" process keeps making.
After which, Windows will boot correctly from that hard disk. But when
BootIt doesn't show up (or when Windows fails to boot correctly), I
desperately need to get into BootIt's BCD editor to fix things up again so
that I CAN boot Windows again. But if I can't boot up from the BootIt CD
(even though I CAN boot up from the flash drive), there's nothing I can do
to fix the Windows boot failures!!

Ergo, I desperately NEED to resolve whatever problem or problems is
preventing me from EVER booting from the BootIt install CD.

I'm sorry I couldn't compress this OP down to a few sentences, but if I did,
there would be too many questions asking me to try all the things I've
already tried and answer all the questions I've already answered in this
admittedly very long post, so I hope I will be forgiven my verbosity

![;)]({SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_wink.gif)

Please advise me on what I can try to resolve this vexing situation.


My considerable thanks goes out to anyone who had the patience to actually
read all this!

TeraByte Support
 
Posts: 2275
Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 3:37 pm


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