BING and USB

User discussion and information resource forum for BootIt Next Generation

Re: BING and USB

Postby DrTeeth » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:19 pm

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 00:58:06 PST, just as I was about to take a herb,
a1pcfixer disturbed my reverie and wrote:

>Once your MoBo/BIOS gets to being a year old, well by then the
>probability of BIOS updates drops dramatically.

Very quickly after a 'boards release by Asus, the BIOS updates have
beta status. It does not mean that they are of beta standard anymore,
it just means that Asus won't provide support.

I hate using the keyboard with BING/BIBM, a mouse feels much more
natural (especially as some of the keyboard shortcuts do not feel that
intuitive/standard). I had a spare USB mouse I kept handy just for
using with BING/BIBM.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose to dance
in the puddles (Jewish proverb).
DrTeeth
 
Posts: 970
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:58 am

Re: BING and USB

Postby a1pcfixer » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:01 pm

DrTeeth,

> Very quickly after a 'boards release by Asus, the BIOS updates have
> beta status. It does not mean that they are of beta standard anymore,
> it just means that Asus won't provide support.

Intel, GB, Asus, etc., aren't about to let users like us to get direct
access to their BIOS coders. If they allowed such, those folks wouldn't
get much done on their paying job.

Make note of my post (earlier) on the 6 months, 1 year, 2 year stuff.

> I hate using the keyboard with BING/BIBM, a mouse feels much more
> natural (especially as some of the keyboard shortcuts do not feel that
> intuitive/standard).

Agreed, it does feel easier, but USB mouse usage in TB products is
unreliable at best outside of an OS. However a kb article clearly
indicating ALL keyboard keystrokes sure would go a long way for new
users of TB products.

MoBo makers and their BIOS coders never intended for major support of
USB mice in MS-DOS, DR-DOS, etc. Once they get USB keyboard support
established, for all intents & purposes they're done. Far more important
issues get their full attention, such as SATA/eSATA/Sandy Bridge
Chipset/CPU/RAM/PMCIA/S.M.A.R.T./PCI Express/BIOS
navigation/etc.......more the focus on those & similar issues
functioning correctly within whatever OS gets installed.

USB as developed by Intel and now dealt with by USB developers (USB.org)
was released in 1995. Since then and now, it's primary duty has been and
continues to be USB support for within an OS (Windows/Mac/Linux).

USB support before bootup gets relegated to primarily USB keyboards, and
for a lucky rare few (like yourself) some USB mice sometimes work.

Imagine for a moment that you've got a 2 year old PC from
Dell/Gatewa/HP/etc and you approach one of them saying TB says you need
to update your BIOS for my PC so I have better USB mouse support in TB
products. It simply isn't gonna happen. Therefore the canned response
here of "update your BIOS" just don't float the boat. Saying that is to
the new user, like saying 'go away & stop pestering me'.

We're darned lucky USB keyboards work as well as they do now days. Be
gratefull too that we're no longer in the earliest stages of USB 1.0/1.1
circa Win95b-and c. THOSE were the days USB gave mega headaches!
--

Jim L.
Using - Virtual Access(OLR)
http://www.virtual-access.org
6.3.0.5 Windows Vista Service Pack 2 build 6002

a1pcfixer
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:13 pm

Re: BING and USB

Postby TeraByte Support » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:53 pm


"a1pcfixer" wrote in message news:1402@public.bootitng...

>Agreed, it does feel easier, but USB mouse usage in TB products is
>unreliable at best outside of an OS. However a kb article clearly
>indicating ALL keyboard keystrokes sure would go a long way for new
>users of TB products.

USB mouse usage in the products is reliable when the BIOS provides proper
support. The issue is not one of reliability, it's related to lack of
support in the BIOS of newer motherboards.

> MoBo makers and their BIOS coders never intended for major support of
> USB mice in MS-DOS, DR-DOS, etc. Once they get USB keyboard support
> established, for all intents & purposes they're done.

Most third-party motherboards in the past had full USB support for both
keyboards and mouse (especially Asus). When they didn't, you could contact
support and they would let their developers know who would then correct it
(which may be as simple as checking a checkbox to include support on the
build) and issue a BIOS update.

> USB as developed by Intel and now dealt with by USB developers (USB.org)
> was released in 1995. Since then and now, it's primary duty has been and
> continues to be USB support for within an OS (Windows/Mac/Linux).

The idea was to have a "universal" bus, it didn't quite work that way.
However, they did try to right some of its wrongs by going out of their way
to try and design it to handle limited memory environments (even mentioned
BIOS) to handle USB keyboard and mouse support.

>We're darned lucky USB keyboards work as well as they do now days.

The mobo would be worthless without that support; F8 mode is dead, real
mode environment - dead, kernel loader selections (grub, lilo, ntldr,) -
dead, bios access - dead.



TeraByte Support
 
Posts: 2310
Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 3:37 pm

Re: BING and USB

Postby a1pcfixer » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:08 am

TeraByte,

> USB mouse usage in the products is reliable when the BIOS provides proper
> support. The issue is not one of reliability, it's related to lack of
> support in the BIOS of newer motherboards.

Problem is, such support whether new or old MoBo is it's unreliable across
the broad spectrum of MoBo's. Users just can't point to ANY series of current
MoBo's or brands of PC's and claim those have rock solid USB mouse support for
legacy apps. The older a MoBo ges, the less likely you'll get ANY BIOS
updates.

> Most third-party motherboards in the past had full USB support for both
> keyboards and mouse (especially Asus).

Abit was great for such updates as well. Alas those WERE the days, we no
longer get such stellar BIOS updates.

> However, they did try to right some of its wrongs by going out of their way
> to try and design it to handle limited memory environments (even mentioned
> BIOS) to handle USB keyboard and mouse support.

True, but with the extremely limited capacity of most BIOS chips, some coding
simply HAD to be left out along the way to make room for code more important.
One of the few true reasons for going to UEFI and it's ability to handle
larger code.

> The mobo would be worthless without that support; F8 mode is dead, real
> mode environment - dead, kernel loader selections (grub, lilo, ntldr,) -
> dead, bios access - dead.

LOL....you make my case of no USB mouse support for me! It used to be, like so
many things in life, that 'the squeaky wheel gets the grease'. NOW, it better
be screaming bloody murder AND on fire or it don't get fixed.

When Windows 8 gets released and UEFI becomes the across the board norm, if
'secure boot' 'option'(?) Is enabled, then USB mouse support for TB products
will fast become the least of concern around here. Have you requested from the
powers that be for BIBM to become a signed bootloader?
--

Jim L.
Using - Virtual Access(OLR)
http://www.virtual-access.org
6.3.0.5 Windows Vista Service Pack 2 build 6002

a1pcfixer
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:13 pm

Re: BING and USB

Postby HighSierra » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:29 pm

Here is ASUS's latest reply. I think I'll decline.

Dear Valued Customer,

Sorry for my delay,If the issue still remains, you will need to contact our RMA department for assistance.
1) If you have Internet access, you can visit this website:
http://vip.asus.com/eservice/usa_rmaserv.aspx
to request an RMA
Please include your name, mailing address, telephone number, and the serial number of your product.
2) If you are in the USA or Canada, also, you could call our RMA department at 812-282-2787 (Hours: 5:30am ?9:00pm(PST) support) select option 2 then option 2. Canada:Canada Phone*: 1-905-370-2787 (French support available). Please have the serial number of your ASUS product handy when you call.

Best Regards,
HighSierra
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:30 am

Re: BING and USB

Postby a1pcfixer » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:04 pm

HighSierra,

> I think I'll decline.

So would I!

Just goes to show ya Asus figures they've done all they need to seeing
as how you DO have full USB mouse & keyboard support in their BIOS
screens & OS', so they're done!

I am curious as to why you haven't posted your issue in Asus' own
forums?

Only thing left for you to try is some different USB mice.
See today's posts farther down titled "Mousing in BING"
--

Jim L.
Using - Virtual Access(OLR)
http://www.virtual-access.org
6.3.0.5 Windows Vista Service Pack 2 build 6002

a1pcfixer
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:13 pm

Re: BING and USB

Postby HighSierra » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:51 am

I can't remember if I posted on their forums. I'll check.
HighSierra
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:30 am

Re: BING and USB

Postby HighSierra » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:21 pm

I did. Nothing there.
HighSierra
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:30 am

Re: BING and USB

Postby a1pcfixer » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:05 pm

Nobody replied over there...Asus....other owners?
--

Jim L.
Using - Virtual Access(OLR)
http://www.virtual-access.org
6.3.0.5 Windows Vista Service Pack 2 build 6002

a1pcfixer
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:13 pm

Re: BING and USB

Postby mjnelson99 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:17 pm

I just received a new Acer Aspire 5755-6647 laptop.

Anyone else considering this one, be sure to update the
Intel 3000 video drivers for better performance.

The touchpad works great in BING. Neat. I don't need to be
concerned about the too small wired mouse that also works.
Mary


On 2/25/2012 5:05 PM, a1pcfixer wrote:
> Nobody replied over there...Asus....other owners?
mjnelson99
 
Posts: 766
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:24 pm

PreviousNext

Return to BootIt Next Generation

cron