BIBM Can't See My USB Hard Drive

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Re: BIBM Can't See My USB Hard Drive

Postby sigi » Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:36 am

I recently came into possession of a 2 TB USB-2.0 external hard drive and tried to deal with it in BIBM. However, it was not reliably (but very erratically on rare and non-reproduceable occasions only) detected by BIBM on my PC. By the way, BIBM does not see my USB mouse either. My notebook BIBM however does detect both reliably. But that does not help me in my situation.

Then I found out that Image for Windows and Image for Linux reliably detect this hard drive on my PC. Image for Linux has the additional advantage that its toolbar contains a button "Work with Partitions", which opens the familiar BIBM environment. I do not know whether you own this Terabyte software bundle. If not, you might want to buy it. It is affordable and may solve your problem.
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Re: BIBM Can't See My USB Hard Drive

Postby CyberSimian » Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:24 am

sigi wrote:
> I recently came into possession of a 2 TB USB-2.0 external hard drive and
> tried to deal with it in BIBM. However, it was not reliably (but very
> erratically on rare and non-reproduceable occasions only) detected by BIBM
> on my PC.

I wanted a USB drive on which I could store BIBM partition images. Since the Seagates were not visible to BIBM, I decided to use instead a 1.5TB Maxtor USB2 drive. I carefully checked that it was visible to BIBM, and it was. Then, when I came to create a partition image a couple of days later, BIBM could not see it. :x For some reason I decided to reboot, and on rebooting BIBM could see it. :?

I am starting to wonder whether the problem is caused by aggressive power management by the USB controller inside the disk enclosure. It seems as though they are intended to be powered from the electric mains all of the time, and it is the USB controller in the disk enclosure that decides when to switch the disk on and off (not the same as the "spin down" that Windows may initiate when the disk is idle). When a PC or laptop appears at the end of the USB cable, the controller powers up the disk. But this takes a finite amount of time. Perhaps BIBM is not waiting long enough for a response. For the "USB bus", BIBM waits 10 seconds, but for some reason these disks usually appear on the "BIOS bus", where perhaps the wait is too short.

I am hoping that I can find a particular sequence of actions that will guarantee that BIBM sees the Maxtor.

> Then I found out that Image for Windows and Image for Linux reliably detect
> this hard drive on my PC. Image for Linux has the additional advantage
> that its toolbar contains a button "Work with Partitions", which
> opens the familiar BIBM environment. I do not know whether you own this
> Terabyte software bundle. If not, you might want to buy it.

Yes, I purchased the "all in one" bundle, as that seemed the best value, but I have not yet downloaded the other products. (Thinks: I must do that!)

-- from CyberSimian in the UK
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Re: BIBM Can't See My USB Hard Drive

Postby mjnelson99 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:02 pm

Are you attaching to a USB 2 or USB 3 device?
Could power be an issue here unless the device you are using us mains
powered??

On 8/22/2016 1:24 PM, CyberSimian wrote:
> sigi wrote:
>> I recently came into possession of a 2 TB USB-2.0 external hard drive and
>> tried to deal with it in BIBM. However, it was not reliably (but very
>> erratically on rare and non-reproduceable occasions only) detected by BIBM
>> on my PC.
>
> I wanted a USB drive on which I could store BIBM partition images. Since the Seagates were not visible to BIBM, I decided to use instead a 1.5TB Maxtor USB2 drive. I carefully checked that it was visible to BIBM, and it was. Then, when I came to create a partition image a couple of days later, BIBM could not see it.
>
> ![:x]({SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mad.gif)
>
> For some reason I decided to reboot, and on rebooting BIBM could see it.
>
> ![:?]({SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_confused.gif)
>
> I am starting to wonder whether the problem is caused by aggressive power management by the USB controller inside the disk enclosure. It seems as though they are intended to be powered from the electric mains all of the time, and it is the USB controller in the disk enclosure that decides when to switch the disk on and off (not the same as the "spin down" that Windows may initiate when the disk is idle). When a PC or laptop appears at the end of the USB cable, the controller powers up the disk. But this takes a finite amount of time. Perhaps BIBM is not waiting long enough for a response. For the "USB bus", BIBM waits 10 seconds, but for some reason these disks usually appear on the "BIOS bus", where perhaps the wait is too short.
>
> I am hoping that I can find a particular sequence of actions that will guarantee that BIBM sees the Maxtor.
>
>> Then I found out that Image for Windows and Image for Linux reliably detect
>> this hard drive on my PC. Image for Linux has the additional advantage
>> that its toolbar contains a button "Work with Partitions", which
>> opens the familiar BIBM environment. I do not know whether you own this
>> Terabyte software bundle. If not, you might want to buy it.
>
> Yes, I purchased the "all in one" bundle, as that seemed the best value, but I have not yet downloaded the other products. (Thinks: I must do that!)
>
> -- from CyberSimian in the UK
>
>
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Re: BIBM Can't See My USB Hard Drive

Postby CyberSimian » Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:00 am

mjnelson99 wrote:
> Are you attaching to a USB 2 or USB 3 device?
> Could power be an issue here unless the device you are using us mains
> powered??

The disks that I have been testing are all USB2, but I have taken care to plug them into the one-and-only USB2 socket on the laptop (the other sockets are USB3).

All of the disks are mains powered. These disks are normal desktop disks (3.5 inch), and so need a 12 volt supply. The mains adapter for the Maxtor is rated at 12 volts 2 amps (= 24 watts). USB sockets provide only 5 volts and a maximum of 0.5 amps (= 2.5 watts).

-- from CyberSimian in the UK
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Re: BIBM Can't See My USB Hard Drive

Postby TeraByte Support » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:51 am

You can read the various USB kb articles at
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/

If you add an add-in pci NEC chipset based controller you shouldn't have any
problems, the on board version have more conflicts with the BIOS. If you
use only the "BIOS" option, it's the BIOS controlling the USB drive.
Anything plugged in to a USB3 port will only work with BIBM via BIOS. The
USB bus option will work with USB2 controllers (and with USB1 enabled, USB 1
(UHCI) based, not OHCI).



"CyberSimian" wrote in message news:12269@public.bootitbm...

mjnelson99 wrote:
> Are you attaching to a USB 2 or USB 3 device?
> Could power be an issue here unless the device you are using us mains
> powered??

The disks that I have been testing are all USB2, but I have taken care to
plug them into the one-and-only USB2 socket on the laptop (the other sockets
are USB3).

All of the disks are mains powered. These disks are normal desktop disks
(3.5 inch), and so need a 12 volt supply. The mains adapter for the Maxtor
is rated at 12 volts 2 amps (= 24 watts). USB sockets provide only 5 volts
and a maximum of 0.5 amps (= 2.5 watts).

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

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Re: BIBM Can't See My USB Hard Drive

Postby sigi » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:12 am

sigi wrote:
>
> I recently came into possession of a 2 TB USB-2.0 external hard drive and
> tried to deal with it in BIBM. However, it was not reliably (but very
> erratically on rare and non-reproduceable occasions only) detected by BIBM

CyberSimian wrote:
>
> The disks that I have been testing are all USB2, but I have taken care to plug them
> into the one-and-only USB2 socket on the laptop (the other sockets are USB3).
>

CyberSimian, in my case it is the other way round. I have found out that BIBM almost reliably (I am not yet sure whether 100 %) detects this USB2 hard drive if I connect it to the USB3 port of my PC and power it up within BIBM in order to have it operational after restart.

By experience I am discouraged to try any USB2 port or to power it up within BIBM for immediate use there. Even powering up while in BIOS does not appear promising.
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Re: BIBM Can't See My USB Hard Drive

Postby CyberSimian » Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:22 am

sigi wrote:
> CyberSimian, in my case it is the other way round. I have found out that BIBM almost
> reliably (I am not yet sure whether 100 %) detects this USB2 hard drive if I connect
> it to the USB3 port of my PC and power it up within BIBM in order to have it
> operational after restart.

Terabyte mentioned in an earlier post that BIBM handles USB3 itself, but uses the BIOS for USB2 (if I have understood that correctly). So recently I have been testing using the USB3 socket on the laptop. This morning I tried powering on the 1.5 TB Maxtor disk after BIBM had booted, but before entering "Partition Work". Sadly, the disk was still invisible to BIBM. :( However, selecting "Reboot" in BIBM resulted in BIBM then being able to see the disk. (This must mean something, but I don't know what.)

My new laptop is a Lenovo, and it has a "BIOS Boot Menu". By pressing a partially concealed button, the BIOS starts and displays a simple menu from which I can select the "Boot Menu". On the "Boot Menu" the BIOS lists all devices (internal and external) that MIGHT be bootable, and from which I can select a device to boot. With the disk plugged into a USB3 socket, I powered on the USB disk, and then the laptop. This is what happens:

1.5 TB Maxtor disk -- ABSENT from list of bootable devices
36 GB Maxtor disk in Belkin enclosure -- PRESENT in list of bootable devices

The significance of this is that the "BIOS Boot Menu" is displayed BEFORE either BIBM or Windows is invoked, but the problem has already manifested itself! So it looks as though there is some sort of problem with the BIOS. I would guess that the two USB disks are returning slightly different responses from the query that the BIOS sends to the device, and the BIOS recognises the response from the 36 GB Maxtor, but does not recognise the response from the 1.5 TB Maxtor.

Be that as it may, the fact is that Windows recognises BOTH disks, and has no problem operating them (presumably via the USB drivers). So whatever Windows is doing to allow it to see and operate the 1.5 TB Maxtor, BIBM could do the same! :idea:

-- from CyberSimian in the UK
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Re: BIBM Can't See My USB Hard Drive

Postby TeraByte Support » Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:02 am

USB2 itself via USB option (but can be in the BIOS - some can conflict with
USB option) and USB3 only through the BIOS.

"CyberSimian" wrote in message news:12445@public.bootitbm...

sigi wrote:
> CyberSimian, in my case it is the other way round. I have found out that
> BIBM almost
> reliably (I am not yet sure whether 100 %) detects this USB2 hard drive if
> I connect
> it to the USB3 port of my PC and power it up within BIBM in order to have
> it
> operational after restart.

Terabyte mentioned in an earlier post that BIBM handles USB3 itself, but
uses the BIOS for USB2 (if I have understood that correctly).

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Re: BIBM Can't See My USB Hard Drive

Postby sigi » Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:49 pm

Confusing quotation. The first and the last sentence (Terabyte's and yours respectively) have different authors although they are on the same quotation level.

On the matter itself: I wish I could understand what Terabyte is telling us here. If I interpret it correctly, he appears to imply that your (CyberSimian's) interpretation of one of his earlier statements on the control of USB3 is is the exact opposite of what he had said.

Perhaps Terabyte could formulate in two complete sentences who (BIOS or BIBM) is responsible for the detection of USB2 and USB3.
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Re: BIBM Can't See My USB Hard Drive

Postby ohaya » Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:26 pm

Hi,

Sorry, for jumping in, but I just came here and was about to ask about something similar:

This was with my new M7510 laptop. I just got a new 256GB SSD (Toshiba), and I put that in a USB3 external enclosure, and I plugged it into the laptop and rebooted, but I couldn't see the drive in BIBM partition works.

But when I boot into Windows => Manage => Disk Management, I saw the drive as unallocated, so I created a new Simple disk and formatted it with NTFS and then I rebooted, and then BIBM could see it as BIOS drive 2 (the 3rd drive).

So I was going to post because I was curious why BIBM wouldn't see the drive when it wasn't formatted, but could see it after it was formatted in Windows?

Let me know if this is a completely different question and I'll post as a separate topic.

Also what is that "BIOS as BIOS" you're asking about?

Thanks,
Jim

EDIT: P.S. The enclosure is a USB 3.0 enclosure.
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