Creating Multi-Boot 64-Bit Win7, Win8, LinuxMint on SSD+HDD

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Re: Creating Multi-Boot 64-Bit Win7, Win8, LinuxMint on SSD+

Postby sigi » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:10 am

Back from vacation I tried to convert my HD-0 from GPT to MBR by means of TBOSDT – without success.There are two possivle reasons for failure: a) I made mistakes or b) the notebook manufacturer has taken precautions against such conversion.

I would like to pursue this matter further

@ Terabyte Support
Should I open a new thread for this one or carry on here in this thread?
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Re: Creating Multi-Boot 64-Bit Win7, Win8, LinuxMint on SSD+

Postby TeraByte Support » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:36 am

email support would be best - but be more specific of what you did (run
chgdtype.tbs), what it said, what problem you have. if posting here a new
thread.


"sigi" wrote in message news:10320@public.bootitbm...

Back from vacation I tried to convert my HD-0 from GPT to MBR by means of
TBOSDT - without success.There are two possivle reasons for failure: a) I
made mistakes or b) the notebook manufacturer has taken precautions against
such conversion.

I would like to pursue this matter further

@ Terabyte Support
Should I open a new thread for this one or carry on here in this thread?

TeraByte Support
 
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Re: Creating Multi-Boot 64-Bit Win7, Win8, LinuxMint on SSD+

Postby sigi » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:19 am

I omitted the details on purpose because I first wanted the decision on whether to pursue this matter here or in a new thread. You suggested E-Mail as an alternative. I prefer a new thread because Brian K appears to be interested in this one and others might be interested too (I have not been able to detect this subject in the public discussions of the Terabyte forums).

So I will start a thread named "Converting BIBM-non recognized GPT disk to MBR using TBOSDTS"
The OSD Tool Suite forum is in my mind too elitist a group for this merely peripheral TBOSDTS problem. I could perhaps choose the IFW/IFL/IFD group because TBOSDTS is bundled with these Terabyte products. However, since my original and persisting objective was/is to see my GPT SATA disk in BIBM, I may perhaps be entitled to start the thread here in this forum. It will follow soon.
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Re: Creating Multi-Boot 64-Bit Win7, Win8, LinuxMint on SSD+

Postby sigi » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:53 am

sigi wrote:
snip
> So I will start a thread named "Converting BIBM-non recognized GPT
> disk to MBR using TBOSDTS"
> The OSD Tool Suite forum is in my mind too elitist a group for this merely
> peripheral TBOSDTS problem. I could perhaps choose the IFW/IFL/IFD group
> because TBOSDTS is bundled with these Terabyte products. However, since my
> original and persisting objective was/is to see my GPT SATA disk in BIBM, I
> may perhaps be entitled to start the thread here in this forum. It will
> follow soon.

The objective of that new thread (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1997) has been achieved. BIBM can see the converted former GPT disk now, Win8.1 on that disk can now be booted and resized by BIBM. All the questions that I wanted to be solved by the forum prior to the actual conversion can be found discussed in detail in that thread. My last posting there contains a summary.

My next steps will be to resize the Win8.1 partition and to copy it to the SSD. Thereafter I will delete the partition from the converted disk and create there an Extended Partition where all the OS's on the SSD can store their data.

____Att.1___ shows the selectable sizes of the Win8 partition (named "Boot") as offered by BIBM.
____Att.2___ shows the present partitions on the SSD (target for the copy of Win8 partition).

I would like to invite some opinions on the most favourable size of the Win8 partition (presently 413297 MB) for copying to the SSD (presently 98450 MB available after deletion of the Extended). Should the Win8 partition take up exactly 98450 MB?
Attachments
Att.1   Win8.1 Resize - values indicated by BIBM.jpg
Att.1 Win8.1 Resize - values indicated by BIBM.jpg (243.12 KiB) Viewed 5846 times
Att.2   SSD partitions as seen by BIBM .JPG
Att.2 SSD partitions as seen by BIBM .JPG (246.27 KiB) Viewed 5846 times
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Re: Creating Multi-Boot 64-Bit Win7, Win8, LinuxMint on SSD+

Postby TeraByte Support(PP) » Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:47 am

Unless you're planning on squeezing something else onto the drive I'd go ahead and use all the free space. Around 100GB should be okay. I usually prefer at least 120GB for Windows so it has room to grow over time (that assumes big data files aren't saved there, of course).
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Re: Creating Multi-Boot 64-Bit Win7, Win8, LinuxMint on SSD+

Postby sigi » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:01 am

I successfully completed the following steps:

1. reagentc /enable in the booted Win8.1 (step 10 of KB 604)

C:\Recovery is still visible (write protected, hidden) in Explorer. However, in contrast to the situation before, Agent Ransack does no longer find Winre.wim there. But BIBM does and displays it with a size of "340,023,313" (340 MiB).

The F8 Boot selection in the Windows Boot Manager (brought forward by the BIBM Boot Item " Win8" I created later [Step 6 below]) now contains a Repair item that was lacking before.

2. Resize Win8.1 with BIBM to the minimum value of 66825 MiB
_____(see Att.1)

3. Resize the Extended contained on the SSD (with only Linux Swap in it) to its minimum of 11444 MiB
_____(see Att.1)

4. Copy Win8.1 to the SSD

asked for an EMBR because this Win 8.1 copy was going to become the fifth partition on the SSD (Notification Window: "Limit Primaries – The partition limit has been reached"); so I unchecked the Limit Primaries option in Settings.

5. Resize Win8.1 on the SSD to its maximum value of 87027 MiB
_____(see Att.2)

6. Create a Boot Item for Win8.1 on the SSD
Booting it brought forward the Windows Boot Manager from where Win8.1 could be booted.

7. Delete Win8.1 on the converted HDD.
_____(see Att.2)


---------------------------------------------------------------------


After having arrived at this satisfoctory state, I set about writing this posting. I decided to look up some English wording by booting the TBWinRE-CD and selecting the Repair function in TBLauncher. Thinking that an action item summary would be presented to me prior to starting repair, I went one step too far. I don't know why the summary did not show up as expected. Instead, repair started and was working some 5 hours. Unfortunately, I mistakenly got my hands on a TBWinRE-CD that I created in Win8.1 when it was still on the original GPT disk. I will discuss the result and ask some questions on how to remedy the situation in my next posting.
Attachments
Att.1    Win8 (on big HDD) and SSD Extended resized to their min values.jpg
Att.1 Win8 (on big HDD) and SSD Extended resized to their min values.jpg (221.73 KiB) Viewed 5834 times
Att.2   Final partitioning on both disks.jpg
Att.2 Final partitioning on both disks.jpg (208.54 KiB) Viewed 5834 times
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Re: Creating Multi-Boot 64-Bit Win7, Win8, LinuxMint on SSD+

Postby TeraByte Support(PP) » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:18 am

sigi wrote:
> Thinking that
> an action item summary would be presented to me prior to starting repair, I
> went one step too far. I don't know why the summary did not show up as
> expected. Instead, repair started and was working some 5 hours.

As mentioned in the other thread, the repair tool doesn't work well with custom multi-boot systems. It usually will fail, but can also break booting for one or more systems (which means even more repairs). It may also disable BIBM and may even corrupt the disk since it doesn't understand EMBR partitions. It's better to avoid using it and do manual repairs instead when they're necessary.

> Unfortunately, I mistakenly got my hands on a TBWinRE-CD that I created in
> Win8.1 when it was still on the original GPT disk. I will discuss the
> result and ask some questions on how to remedy the situation in my next
> posting.

The TBWinRE build created would be the same whether created from the GPT installation or the MBR/EMBR installation. However, since it can boot in either mode (Legacy/UEFI) it's best to make sure to boot it in the mode your Windows uses if you're going to be running the repair tool or doing manual repairs. For example, you would want to boot it in Legacy mode.
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Re: Creating Multi-Boot 64-Bit Win7, Win8, LinuxMint on SSD+

Postby sigi » Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:17 pm

CONSEQUENCES OF UNINTENTIONAL REPAIR
concerning my special case (cf. posting by sigi » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:01 pm)


TeraByte Support(PP) wrote:
snip
> As mentioned in the other thread, the repair tool doesn't work well with custom
> multi-boot systems. It usually will fail, but can also break booting for one or more
> systems (which means even more repairs). It may also disable BIBM and may even
> corrupt the disk since it doesn't understand EMBR partitions. It's better to avoid
> using it and do manual repairs instead when they're necessary.
snip
Thank you for reminding me of the deficiencies of the TBWinRE Repair tool in multi-boot systems.
I am going to make a mnemonic for it immediately. However, in the present case I had no intention to start the tool. As mentioned in my previous posting I just wanted to pass through the steps up to the displayed summary of actions and stop there. But this step was skipped and the repair tool started automatically (or unintentionally).

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I had luck in the accident:

1)___ When I came back after 5 hours or so I found the Win8.1 login screen displayed. The Win8 I disk manager told me that the OS had been booted from the SSD and that the partition still had a size in the correct order of magnitude (84,99 GB).

2)___ If I remember correctly, I then restarted into BIOS, changed the boot sequence from HDD to DVD/CD first and booted from my BIBM CD. I selected "Maintenance" and had a look at "Drives" and "View MBR":

________a) the HDD was no longer displayed in BIBM (GPT! – the old problem)
________b) the SSD apparently had the same partitions as prior to the unintentional repair
________c) the MBR showed the SSD Win8 partition only and it was set active

(cf. Att.1 and Att.2)

3)___ After reboot I changed the BIOS boot order from DVD/CD first in sequence to the SSD item with the consequence that the boot process for all of the three OS's on the SSD was the same as prior to the unintentional repair

4)___ I checked the Boot Items in BIBM in order to get an impression of what the repair tool might have done to the partitions in there (or does it not care about hidden and EMBR-absent partitions and treat them like those present and visible in the boot item?)

(cf. Att.3)

5)___ The F8 Boot selection in the Windows Boot Manager (brought forward by the BIBM Boot Item " Win8") contains a Repair item as before.

So I assume that I do not have to repeat "reagentc /enable"?

-------------------------------------------------------------------

It appears to me that I can now delete all the partitions on the GPT disk without loosing anything.


QUESTION 1
Should I use the Win7 Disk Manager or IFW for deleting all partitions on the GPT disk?


QUESTION 2
I have to achieve an empty MBR disk in order for BIBM to see it and create an Extended Partition there as planned. Will the deletion of all partitions on the disk still leave a GPT disk so that I have to run the chgdtype script? Is it better to apply chgdtype prior to or after emptying the disk or is it irrelevant?


QUESTION 3
Does the repair tool significantly wear down the SSD during a five hour's repair considering that the repair tool apparently made much more changes to the other disk (and perhaps even none to the SSD)?
Attachments
Att.1  BIOS Boot Sequence and BIBM MBR after unintentional repair.jpg
Att.1 BIOS Boot Sequence and BIBM MBR after unintentional repair.jpg (205.88 KiB) Viewed 5825 times
Att.2   disks and partitions in BIBM and IFW after repair.jpg
Att.2 disks and partitions in BIBM and IFW after repair.jpg (214.88 KiB) Viewed 5825 times
Att.3  BIBM Boot Items for Win8 and Win7 (unchanged by repair).jpg
Att.3 BIBM Boot Items for Win8 and Win7 (unchanged by repair).jpg (209.65 KiB) Viewed 5825 times
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Re: Creating Multi-Boot 64-Bit Win7, Win8, LinuxMint on SSD+

Postby TeraByte Support(PP) » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:39 pm

sigi wrote:
> Thank you for reminding me of the deficiencies of the TBWinRE Repair tool in
> multi-boot systems.

Just so it's clear, the repair tool is the standard Microsoft tool that's included in WinRE and is the same tool that would be run from the Windows installation or repair/recovery media. Windows may also run it automatically if it detects startup issues.

> 4)___ I checked the Boot Items in BIBM in order to get an impression of what the
> repair tool might have done to the partitions in there (or does it not care about
> hidden and EMBR-absent partitions and treat them like those present and visible in
> the boot item?)

Windows will not see partitions on an EMBR disk that are not loaded into the MBR. This is normally okay since Windows is just concerned with running and booting. However, the repair tool is looking for issues and doesn't care about the "unallocated space" it sees -- if it decides to convert a disk or create (or undelete) a partition it will do it.

> 5)___ The F8 Boot selection in the Windows Boot Manager (brought forward by the BIBM
> Boot Item " Win8") contains a Repair item as before.
>
> So I assume that I do not have to repeat "reagentc /enable"?

I don't think you should need to. If you do run it again it won't hurt anything (it should just report success).

> QUESTION 1
> Should I use the Win7 Disk Manager or IFW for deleting all partitions on the GPT
> disk?

Disk Management should let you delete them since it's not the Windows disk anymore. Either method should work, though.

> QUESTION 2
> I have to achieve an empty MBR disk in order for BIBM to see it and create an
> Extended Partition there as planned. Will the deletion of all partitions on the disk
> still leave a GPT disk so that I have to run the chgdtype script? Is it better to
> apply chgdtype prior to or after emptying the disk or is it irrelevant?

You don't need to run chgdtype on it. Just convert the disk to MBR. You can do this in Disk Management (after all partitions are deleted) or with IFW. I would also recommend creating a normal primary partition instead of an extended partition.

> QUESTION 3
> Does the repair tool significantly wear down the SSD during a five hour's repair
> considering that the repair tool apparently made much more changes to the other disk
> (and perhaps even none to the SSD)?

It doesn't write that much. It's dealing with partition changes and booting files/configuration. Usually, when it takes a long time, it's just having problems applying the "fix" it wants. In most cases, those type of repairs fail.
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Re: Creating Multi-Boot 64-Bit Win7, Win8, LinuxMint on SSD+

Postby sigi » Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:43 pm

Thank you for your excellent detailed answers. The give me a clearer picture of what the repair function does.


TeraByte Support(PP) wrote:
> I would also recommend creating a normal primary partition instead of an extended partition.

I prefer to see drive letters in my Windows Explorer instead of having an additional hierarchy level in my only primary partition (the one big disadvantage of Linux in my eyes). Drive Letters are much more comspicuous. I use almost the entire alphabet and would never renounce that. Or did you imply that I should create an EMBR on that disk too and create as many primary partitions as I want drive letters (i.e. about 15)?

> sigi wrote:
> > QUESTION 3
> > Does the repair tool significantly wear down the SSD during a five hour's repair
> > considering that the repair tool apparently made much more changes to the other
>> disk (and perhaps even none to the SSD)?
>
> It doesn't write that much. It's dealing with partition changes and booting
> files/configuration. Usually, when it takes a long time, it's just having problems
> applying the "fix" it wants. In most cases, those type of repairs fail.

Will the creation of a disk or partition image (the source being the SSD) with a TeraByte product significantly wear down the SSD?
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