Restoring Win 10 image from CD

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Restoring Win 10 image from CD

Postby rustleg » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:12 pm

I'm considering which method to use for restore (before making a backup plan) and I want to clarify my options.

I have a Windows 10 system with the usual 4 partitions on a SSD as follows:
Recovery (450MiB) NTFS (01)
EFI system partition (99MiB) FAT-32 (02)
Microsoft reserved partition (16MiB) GPT entry (03)
Basic data partition (C:) (102400 MiB) NTFS (04)

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I'm aware you can do an image of the whole disc in 3 different ways, either from inside the running Windows, from the TBWinRE within the EFI system partition or by booting a CD (could be IFD/IFL/TBWinRE/TBWinPE). In my case the image files will be placed on an external USB hard drive. The first 2 ways mean one of the partitions is active at the time the backup is being taken. If I use one of these to take an image while secure boot is active, will the image be restorable by booting into any of IFD/IFL/TBWinRE/TBWinPE CD boot media or does it have to be TBWinRE/TBWinPE ? Is one of these 4 boot CDs preferred?
Russell
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Re: Restoring Win 10 image from CD

Postby TeraByte Support(PP) » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:43 pm

When you say "from TBWinRE within the EFI system partition" I assume you mean when the installed WinRE is updated to TBWinRE. In that case, it would be the WinRE partition (Recovery) and not the EFI system partition that holds it.

While it's correct that booting into TBWinRE in WinRE (or even plain WinRE, or using /bootwim) can hold locks on certain files, it's usually not an issue. In most cases you don't notice anything. In others, you may need to have IFW force dismount (or delete) first. These types of problems tend to be worse if BitLocker is used since it will protect parts of the drive.

Making the backup image with Secure Boot enabled doesn't prevent restoring with any version of the program. It would just be a booting issue. For example, if you wanted to restore using IFD you would need to disable Secure Boot first. TBWinRE/PE and IFL support Secure Boot.

As for the boot media you use, it would be personal preference or what works best on the system. I usually use a TBWinRE UFD or just boot the WIM file (no boot media needed). Of course, booting the WIM requires the system boots okay to Windows. If not, then the UFD would be used.
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Re: Restoring Win 10 image from CD

Postby rustleg » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:15 am

I wasn't sure of the detail of the relationships of TBWinRE to the partitions, thanks for the explanation.

It's actually my friend's system - I bought IFW for him (he paid) and set it up. He recently had some trouble doing a backup from the TBWinRE environment I set up (a while ago - I forgot the details). I haven't yet sat down with him to find out what his problem was but I don't trust Microsoft not to change how things work. So I want to review his backup and restore process to make sure it will not fail him in the most extreme situations e.g. failure of SSD or deeply embedded malware. I intend to make up instructions for him to do a backup which doesn't depend on anything on the SSD, using either a CD or USB stick. Also of course restore instructions. I think I prefer the CD as it can be clearly labelled and it's less likely to be lost or accidentally used for some other purpose. If I decide on IFD I'll cover how to alter BIOS settings to get IFD to run. Perhaps IFL or TBWinRE might be preferable, I guess I should experiment with all 3 to find the most reliable for him using just a set of printed instructions.

Last time I looked (long time ago) IFL seemed a pretty interesting and ambitious product which I'd probably prefer personally (as a Linux user) if I had the time, so perhaps I'd better stay away from it :)
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Re: Restoring Win 10 image from CD

Postby mjnelson99 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:31 am

Chances are a whole backup will take a few CDs. I would at least use
DVDs if possible.My own computer used 2 DVDs for my laptop for the image
itself when I was still using them.
And home-burned disks do not necessarily last as long as commercially
burned disks.

Mary


On 12/3/2017 2:15 AM, rustleg wrote:
> I wasn't sure of the detail of the relationships of TBWinRE to the partitions, thanks for the explanation.
>
> It's actually my friend's system - I bought IFW for him (he paid) and set it up. He recently had some trouble doing a backup from the TBWinRE environment I set up (a while ago - I forgot the details). I haven't yet sat down with him to find out what his problem was but I don't trust Microsoft not to change how things work. So I want to review his backup and restore process to make sure it will not fail him in the most extreme situations e.g. failure of SSD or deeply embedded malware. I intend to make up instructions for him to do a backup which doesn't depend on anything on the SSD, using either a CD or USB stick. Also of course restore instructions. I think I prefer the CD as it can be clearly labelled and it's less likely to be lost or accidentally used for some other purpose. If I decide on IFD I'll cover how to alter BIOS settings to get IFD to run. Perhaps IFL or TBWinRE might be preferable, I guess I should experiment with all 3 to find the most reliable for him using just a set of printed instructions.
>
> Last time I looked (long time ago) IFL seemed a pretty interesting and ambitious product which I'd probably prefer personally (as a Linux user) if I had the time, so perhaps I'd better stay away from it
>
> ![:)]({SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif)
>
>
>
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Re: Restoring Win 10 image from CD

Postby Bob Coleman » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:01 pm

The mention above about preferring CD refers to booting from the CD, not putting the backup on CD, I think.

mjnelson99 wrote:
> Chances are a whole backup will take a few CDs. I would at least use
> DVDs if possible.My own computer used 2 DVDs for my laptop for the image
> itself when I was still using them.
> And home-burned disks do not necessarily last as long as commercially
> burned disks.
>
> Mary
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Re: Restoring Win 10 image from CD

Postby Bob Coleman » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:04 pm

rustleg wrote:

> Last time I looked (long time ago) IFL seemed a pretty interesting and
> ambitious product which I'd probably prefer personally (as a Linux user) if
> I had the time, so perhaps I'd better stay away from it :)

There may be other things that I don't understand that a Linux user could do with IFL, but if you create a bootable IFL CD or USB stick, using it won't be much different than using IFD, but is typically much faster.
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Re: Restoring Win 10 image from CD

Postby mjnelson99 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:10 pm

My suggestion is do both. Minimal cost.

On 12/3/2017 2:01 PM, Bob Coleman wrote:
> The mention above about preferring CD refers to booting from the CD, not putting the backup on CD, I think.
>
> mjnelson99 wrote:
>> Chances are a whole backup will take a few CDs. I would at least use
>> DVDs if possible.My own computer used 2 DVDs for my laptop for the image
>> itself when I was still using them.
>> And home-burned disks do not necessarily last as long as commercially
>> burned disks.
>>
>> Mary
>
>
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Re: Restoring Win 10 image from CD

Postby rustleg » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:36 am

I saw my friend with his laptop today and we had a number of issues, one of which merits another post.

The other issues were that firstly IFD didn't see his external USB drive. Maybe this was because I had unfortunately chosen the "simple operations" setting so perhaps this could have been overcome with a CD without that setting. I tried to untick this setting while running but it said it could not save it (no surprise - it's a CD) but it wasn't clear to me whether this meant that it was not able to use the non-simple operations mode. I'll have to make another CD.

The second issue was that the latest "Fall Creators Update" of Windows 10 appears to have deleted Image for Windows from the Troubleshooting menu. Is that normal?

Mary, I was not thinking about recording the image to CD's, at around 650MB per disc this would require over 30 CDs, completely impractical.
Russell
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Re: Restoring Win 10 image from CD

Postby TeraByte Support(PP) » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:47 pm

It would still toggle the Simple Operations mode. It just wouldn't be able to save the changed setting. Simple Operations mode being enabled or not shouldn't affect whether IFD can see the USB drives. Generally, better results (and performance) are seen with IFL or TBWinRE/PE when using USB drives.

Depending on how Windows gets updated/upgraded, it can change how the updated menu item is seen or even if it's included. It may still be there and not shown in the menu (e.g. you could boot the Command Prompt option and still get it). Or it could be gone because the WinRE file itself was updated and replaced the existing version. Both of these issues are normal. You should be able to add IFW to WinRE again and fix it.
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Re: Restoring Win 10 image from CD

Postby rustleg » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:58 am

Thanks for the info. Based on what you say, I'm thinking of trying IFL because once set up and working, we wouldn't be troubled by future Windows upgrades. I looked at the manual and have a few questions.

The manual presumably relates to the latest V3. At present we have only V2. If I download the trial version of V3 is it possible to do everything that the paid version does, including customised versions of the bootable USB/CD (e.g. UK keyboard) ?

I can't see any reference in the manual for UEFI booting but there is quite a bit about MBR. Is there any specific area I need to look at to make sure it will boot in UEFI mode with secure boot on?

The manual refers to a "restore disc". What is this? I presumed that installing IFL on a USB or CD would create a bootable system that could do backups or restores and wouldn't need some other medium to do restores.
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