Can "Failed" Backups Be Safely Used?

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Can "Failed" Backups Be Safely Used?

Postby Muad'Dib » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:04 am

First of all, sorry for the length (and complexity) of this post, but I started writing it several hours ago, and have added to it as I have learned more information.

I am in the process of backing up several partitions from an internal laptop PATA drive to an external USB2 drive. My BOOTIT EMBR Partition (and one other partition) backed up and verified just fine. However, several times, while trying to backup my Windows partition (and another partition), near the very end of the backup I get the error message "Unable to read from device". I then set the program to ignore IO errors, but even with this setting, at the very end of the process (during the Byte-For-Byte Validation), I get another "Unable to read from device" and the program stops and deletes the backup. So it seems that the ignore option doesn't apply to validation (FYI, my log files are displayed at the bottom of this post, I set my LogLevel to 10 to see as much info as possible).

I've now checked the "Retain Failed Backups" box in the hope that I'll have at least something salvageable (though so far, other than the IFW errors (and one small "CHKDSK discovered free space marked as allocated" discovered after I encountered the IFW problem), I've not had problems with the drive).

My questions are:

1) How usable will this "Failed Backup" be? I know I can view and restore various files from my other backups with TBIView (though restoration seems extremely slow, though that may simply be my perception), but will I be able to use IFW to restore my Failed Backup to a replacement drive? I'm obviously going to be testing this as much as possible, but since I'm currently in "save it while I can" mode, any information I can receive while I'm waiting for the backups to complete will be greatly appreciated!

2) In the process of my many attempts to create my backups (in this case on my Windows drive), the number of "Disk Read Error at LBA..." has increased, though the start and end LBA is still the same (see the 2nd section below for that log). Is this increase in read errors clear evidence of imminent failure, or since it is within the same start and end points, simply an indication of one bad spot (which may or may not be completely detected upon subsequent backups)? While I've been waiting for the backups to complete, I've been reading some items online that seem to indicate that "in the real world" LBA errors typically don't cause actual loss of data, since the OS "knows" not to write things there. While the drive is an older PATA/IDE drive (Hitachi 2.5" 40gb) it does have S.M.A.R.T. capabilities, and (so far) is being reported as healthy.

3) If the read errors are not indicative of bad file space, how do I use IFW without having to disable some of the normal options? Would IFD work any better?

BTW, I ran a separate validation after the backup had completed, and the validation was successful, though I'm not sure if that really tells me much about my ability to restore (see the 3rd log for that info).

Thanks in advance for any help/info/reassuring words (if possible) you can send my way!

1) Earlier run (before enabling "Retain Failed Backup":
[11/20/2011 11:21:48 pm] Image for Windows 2.66 (GUI)
[11/20/2011 11:21:48 pm] Starting LAPTOP CHARLIE...
imagew /b /d:w0@0x1 /f:"I:\Images\LAPTOP\CHARLIE Backup-w0-0x1-$~YYYY$-$~MM$-$~DD$-$~HHMM$" /max:4GiB /vb /comp:0 /enc:3 /desc:"LAPTOP CHARLIE"
[11/20/2011 11:21:49 pm] PHYLock is waiting for drive writing to stop ...
[11/20/2011 11:31:49 pm] PHYLock using drive C:
[11/20/2011 11:31:51 pm] PHYLock Started
[11/20/2011 11:31:51 pm] PHYLock Using Disk
[11/20/2011 11:31:51 pm] PHYLock version 6
[11/20/2011 11:31:51 pm] Backup: Drive 0 (C:) LAPTOP Partition (01) 14998 MiB Hidden HPFS/NTFS
[11/20/2011 11:31:51 pm] To: I:\Images\LAPTOP\CHARLIE Backup-w0-0x1-2011-11-20-2320.TBI
[11/21/2011 12:24:32 am] A hard drive error occurred while reading 127 sectors from LBA 30262086.
Ignore all errors and continue?
[11/21/2011 2:38:36 am] Disk Read Error at LBA 30262140
[11/21/2011 2:38:41 am] Disk Read Error at LBA 30262144
[11/21/2011 2:38:49 am] Disk Read Error at LBA 30262163
[11/21/2011 2:38:55 am] Disk Read Error at LBA 30262172
[11/21/2011 2:39:42 am] INFO: Total Sectors:30716217 Total Allocated:27508184
[11/21/2011 2:39:42 am] INFO: 22530416 Sector(s) backed up
[11/21/2011 2:39:44 am] Validating: LAPTOP Partition (01) 14998 MiB Hidden HPFS/NTFS
[11/21/2011 2:39:44 am] From: I:\Images\LAPTOP\CHARLIE Backup-w0-0x1-2011-11-20-2320.TBI
[11/21/2011 3:21:30 am] Deleting incomplete or failed backup.
[11/21/2011 3:21:30 am] Bad Sectors - Reading:4 Writing:0 (1)
[11/21/2011 3:21:31 am] Operation Completed with Error Code 98
[11/21/2011 3:21:31 am] Unable to read from device
[11/21/2011 5:25:24 am] Stop


2) Completed "successful" run:
[11/21/2011 7:06:02 am] Image for Windows 2.66 (GUI)
[11/21/2011 7:06:02 am] Starting LAPTOP CHARLIE...
imagew /b /d:w0@0x1 /f:"I:\Images\LAPTOP\CHARLIE Backup-w0-0x1-$~YYYY$-$~MM$-$~DD$-$~HHMM$" /max:4GiB /vb /comp:0 /enc:3 /err /desc:"LAPTOP CHARLIE"
[11/21/2011 7:06:02 am] PHYLock is waiting for drive writing to stop ...
[11/21/2011 7:06:25 am] PHYLock using drive C:
[11/21/2011 7:06:28 am] PHYLock Started
[11/21/2011 7:06:29 am] PHYLock Using Disk
[11/21/2011 7:06:29 am] PHYLock version 6
[11/21/2011 7:06:31 am] Backup: Drive 0 (C:) LAPTOP Partition (01) 14998 MiB Hidden HPFS/NTFS
[11/21/2011 7:06:31 am] To: I:\Images\LAPTOP\CHARLIE Backup-w0-0x1-2011-11-21-0704.TBI
[11/21/2011 7:58:07 am] Disk Read Error at LBA 30262140
[11/21/2011 7:58:09 am] Disk Read Error at LBA 30262141
[11/21/2011 7:58:12 am] Disk Read Error at LBA 30262144
[11/21/2011 7:58:16 am] Disk Read Error at LBA 30262156
[11/21/2011 7:58:18 am] Disk Read Error at LBA 30262163
[11/21/2011 7:58:24 am] Disk Read Error at LBA 30262172
[11/21/2011 7:59:26 am] INFO: Total Sectors:30716217 Total Allocated:27562720
[11/21/2011 7:59:26 am] INFO: 22552184 Sector(s) backed up
[11/21/2011 7:59:27 am] Validating: LAPTOP Partition (01) 14998 MiB Hidden HPFS/NTFS
[11/21/2011 7:59:27 am] From: I:\Images\LAPTOP\CHARLIE Backup-w0-0x1-2011-11-21-0704.TBI
[11/21/2011 8:49:51 am] Bad Sectors - Reading:6 Writing:0 (1)
[11/21/2011 8:49:51 am] Operation Completed with Error Code 98
[11/21/2011 8:49:51 am] Unable to read from device

3) Stand-alone validation run:
[11/21/2011 9:06:18 am] Image for Windows 2.66 (GUI)
[11/21/2011 9:06:18 am] Starting LAPTOP CHARLIE...
imagew /v /f:"I:\Images\LAPTOP\CHARLIE Backup-w0-0x1-2011-11-21-0704"
[11/21/2011 9:06:18 am] Validating: LAPTOP Partition (01) 14998 MiB Hidden HPFS/NTFS
[11/21/2011 9:06:18 am] From: I:\Images\LAPTOP\CHARLIE Backup-w0-0x1-2011-11-21-0704.TBI
[11/21/2011 9:32:55 am] Operation Completed with Error Code 0
[11/21/2011 9:32:56 am] Stop
Muad'Dib
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:23 am

Re: Can "Failed" Backups Be Safely Used?

Postby TeraByte Support » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:02 am

When you get bad sectors you'd want to disable byte-for-byte validation
because you know it will fail or as you said retain the failed backups. If
it validates normally you can restore it. Your hard drive is starting to
die, it's time to replace it asap, whatever file was in use at those sectors
will have corruption, you can use findlbaf from the ftp site:
ftp://www.terabyteunlimited.com/findlbaf.zip

"Muad'Dib" wrote in message news:724@public.image...

First of all, sorry for the length (and complexity) of this post, but I
started writing it several hours ago, and have added to it as I have learned
more information.

I am in the process of backing up several partitions from an internal laptop
PATA drive to an external USB2 drive. My BOOTIT EMBR Partition (and one
other partition) backed up and verified just fine. However, several times,
while trying to backup my Windows partition (and another partition), near
the very end of the backup I get the error message "Unable to read from
device". I then set the program to ignore IO errors, but even with this
setting, at the very end of the process (during the Byte-For-Byte
Validation), I get another "Unable to read from device" and the
program stops and deletes the backup. So it seems that the ignore option
doesn't apply to validation ([b:1nhsoyhj][color=#BF0040:1nhsoyhj]FYI, my log
files are displayed at the bottom of this
post,[/color:1nhsoyhj][/b:1nhsoyhj] I set my LogLevel to 10 to see as much
info as possible).

I've now checked the "Retain Failed Backups" box in the hope that
I'll have at least [b:1nhsoyhj]something[/b:1nhsoyhj] salvageable (though so
far, other than the IFW errors (and one small "[i:1nhsoyhj]CHKDSK
discovered free space marked as allocated[/i:1nhsoyhj]" discovered
after I encountered the IFW problem), I've not had problems with the drive).

My questions are:

1)[color=#BF0000:1nhsoyhj][b:1nhsoyhj] How usable will this "Failed
Backup" be?[/b:1nhsoyhj][/color:1nhsoyhj] I know I can view and restore
various files from my other backups with TBIView (though restoration seems
extremely slow, though that may simply be my perception), but will I be able
to use IFW to restore my Failed Backup to a replacement drive? I'm obviously
going to be testing this as much as possible, but since I'm currently in
"save it while I can" mode, any information I can receive while
I'm waiting for the backups to complete will be greatly appreciated!

2) In the process of my many attempts to create my backups (in this case on
my Windows drive), the number of "Disk Read Error at LBA..." has
increased, though the start and end LBA is still the same (see the 2nd
section below for that log). [color=#BF0000:1nhsoyhj][b:1nhsoyhj]Is this
increase in read errors clear evidence of imminent
failure[/b:1nhsoyhj][/color:1nhsoyhj], or [u:1nhsoyhj]since it is within the
same start and end points[/u:1nhsoyhj], simply an indication of one bad spot
(which may or may not be completely detected upon subsequent backups)? While
I've been waiting for the backups to complete, I've been reading some items
online that seem to indicate that "in the real world" LBA errors
typically don't cause actual loss of data, since the OS "knows"
not to write things there. While the drive is an older PATA/IDE drive
(Hitachi 2.5" 40gb) it does have S.M.A.R.T. capabilities, and (so far)
is being reported as healthy.

3) [color=#BF0000:1nhsoyhj][b:1nhsoyhj]If the read errors are
[u:1nhsoyhj]not[/u:1nhsoyhj] indicative of bad file space, how do I use IFW
without having to disable some of the normal
options?[/b:1nhsoyhj][/color:1nhsoyhj] Would IFD work any better?

BTW, I ran a separate validation after the backup had completed, and the
validation was successful, though I'm not sure if that really tells me much
about my ability to restore (see the 3rd log for that info).

Thanks in advance for any help/info/reassuring words (if possible) you can
send my way!

[quote:1nhsoyhj][b:1nhsoyhj]1) Earlier run (before enabling "Retain
Failed Backup":[/b:1nhsoyhj][color=#004000:1nhsoyhj]
[11/20/2011 11:21:48 pm] Image for Windows 2.66 (GUI)
[11/20/2011 11:21:48 pm] Starting LAPTOP CHARLIE...
imagew /b /d:w0@0x1 /f:"I:\Images\LAPTOP\CHARLIE
Backup-w0-0x1-$~YYYY$-$~MM$-$~DD$-$~HHMM$" /max:4GiB /vb /comp:0 /enc:3
/desc:"LAPTOP CHARLIE"
[11/20/2011 11:21:49 pm] PHYLock is waiting for drive writing to stop ...
[11/20/2011 11:31:49 pm] PHYLock using drive C:
[11/20/2011 11:31:51 pm] PHYLock Started
[11/20/2011 11:31:51 pm] PHYLock Using Disk
[11/20/2011 11:31:51 pm] PHYLock version 6
[11/20/2011 11:31:51 pm] Backup: Drive 0 (C:) LAPTOP Partition (01) 14998
MiB Hidden HPFS/NTFS
[11/20/2011 11:31:51 pm] To: I:\Images\LAPTOP\CHARLIE
Backup-w0-0x1-2011-11-20-2320.TBI
[11/21/2011 12:24:32 am] A hard drive error occurred while reading 127
sectors from LBA 30262086.
Ignore all errors and continue?
[11/21/2011 2:38:36 am] Disk Read Error at LBA 30262140
[11/21/2011 2:38:41 am] Disk Read Error at LBA 30262144
[11/21/2011 2:38:49 am] Disk Read Error at LBA 30262163
[11/21/2011 2:38:55 am] Disk Read Error at LBA 30262172
[11/21/2011 2:39:42 am] INFO: Total Sectors:30716217 Total
Allocated:27508184
[11/21/2011 2:39:42 am] INFO: 22530416 Sector(s) backed up
[11/21/2011 2:39:44 am] Validating: LAPTOP Partition (01) 14998 MiB Hidden
HPFS/NTFS
[11/21/2011 2:39:44 am] From: I:\Images\LAPTOP\CHARLIE
Backup-w0-0x1-2011-11-20-2320.TBI
[11/21/2011 3:21:30 am] Deleting incomplete or failed backup.
[11/21/2011 3:21:30 am] Bad Sectors - Reading:4 Writing:0 (1)
[11/21/2011 3:21:31 am] Operation Completed with Error Code 98
[11/21/2011 3:21:31 am] Unable to read from device
[11/21/2011 5:25:24 am] Stop[/color:1nhsoyhj]
[/quote:1nhsoyhj]
[quote:1nhsoyhj][b:1nhsoyhj]2) Completed "successful"
run:[/b:1nhsoyhj][color=#404000:1nhsoyhj]
[11/21/2011 7:06:02 am] Image for Windows 2.66 (GUI)
[11/21/2011 7:06:02 am] Starting LAPTOP CHARLIE...
imagew /b /d:w0@0x1 /f:"I:\Images\LAPTOP\CHARLIE
Backup-w0-0x1-$~YYYY$-$~MM$-$~DD$-$~HHMM$" /max:4GiB /vb /comp:0 /enc:3
/err /desc:"LAPTOP CHARLIE"
[11/21/2011 7:06:02 am] PHYLock is waiting for drive writing to stop ...
[11/21/2011 7:06:25 am] PHYLock using drive C:
[11/21/2011 7:06:28 am] PHYLock Started
[11/21/2011 7:06:29 am] PHYLock Using Disk
[11/21/2011 7:06:29 am] PHYLock version 6
[11/21/2011 7:06:31 am] Backup: Drive 0 (C:) LAPTOP Partition (01) 14998
MiB Hidden HPFS/NTFS
[11/21/2011 7:06:31 am] To: I:\Images\LAPTOP\CHARLIE
Backup-w0-0x1-2011-11-21-0704.TBI
[11/21/2011 7:58:07 am] Disk Read Error at LBA 30262140
[11/21/2011 7:58:09 am] Disk Read Error at LBA 30262141
[11/21/2011 7:58:12 am] Disk Read Error at LBA 30262144
[11/21/2011 7:58:16 am] Disk Read Error at LBA 30262156
[11/21/2011 7:58:18 am] Disk Read Error at LBA 30262163
[11/21/2011 7:58:24 am] Disk Read Error at LBA 30262172
[11/21/2011 7:59:26 am] INFO: Total Sectors:30716217 Total
Allocated:27562720
[11/21/2011 7:59:26 am] INFO: 22552184 Sector(s) backed up
[11/21/2011 7:59:27 am] Validating: LAPTOP Partition (01) 14998 MiB Hidden
HPFS/NTFS
[11/21/2011 7:59:27 am] From: I:\Images\LAPTOP\CHARLIE
Backup-w0-0x1-2011-11-21-0704.TBI
[11/21/2011 8:49:51 am] Bad Sectors - Reading:6 Writing:0 (1)
[11/21/2011 8:49:51 am] Operation Completed with Error Code 98
[11/21/2011 8:49:51 am] Unable to read from device
[/color:1nhsoyhj][/quote:1nhsoyhj]
[quote:1nhsoyhj][b:1nhsoyhj]3) Stand-alone validation
run:[/b:1nhsoyhj][color=#400000:1nhsoyhj]
[11/21/2011 9:06:18 am] Image for Windows 2.66 (GUI)
[11/21/2011 9:06:18 am] Starting LAPTOP CHARLIE...
imagew /v /f:"I:\Images\LAPTOP\CHARLIE
Backup-w0-0x1-2011-11-21-0704"
[11/21/2011 9:06:18 am] Validating: LAPTOP Partition (01) 14998 MiB Hidden
HPFS/NTFS
[11/21/2011 9:06:18 am] From: I:\Images\LAPTOP\CHARLIE
Backup-w0-0x1-2011-11-21-0704.TBI
[11/21/2011 9:32:55 am] Operation Completed with Error Code 0
[11/21/2011 9:32:56 am] Stop
[/color:1nhsoyhj][/quote:1nhsoyhj]

TeraByte Support
 
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Re: Can "Failed" Backups Be Safely Used?

Postby Bob Coleman » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:35 am

Slightly off topic, I know, but depending on the importance of the data, it might be worthwhile to see if SpinRite (www.grc.com) can fix the error on the disk.
Bob Coleman
 
Posts: 403
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:58 am

Re: Can "Failed" Backups Be Safely Used?

Postby DrTeeth » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:40 am

On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:35:48 PST, just as I was about to take a herb,
Bob Coleman disturbed my reverie and wrote:

>Slightly off topic, I know, but depending on the importance of the data, it might be worthwhile to see if SpinRite (www.grc.com) can fix the error on the disk.

chkdsk /r might work too.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose to dance
in the puddles (Jewish proverb).
DrTeeth
 
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Re: Can "Failed" Backups Be Safely Used?

Postby mjnelson99 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:49 am

Not sure I would want to take a chance on that disk
maintaining integrity over time.

I know hard drives have increased in price with the flooding
in Thailand so it might pay to wait a few months, though.
Make current images, just in case.
Mary

On 11/21/2011 11:35 AM, Bob Coleman wrote:
> Slightly off topic, I know, but depending on the importance of the data, it might be worthwhile to see if SpinRite (www.grc.com) can fix the error on the disk.
mjnelson99
 
Posts: 766
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:24 pm

Re: Can "Failed" Backups Be Safely Used?

Postby DrTeeth » Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:03 pm

On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:49:39 PST, just as I was about to take a herb,
mjnelson99 disturbed my reverie and wrote:

>I know hard drives have increased in price with the flooding
>in Thailand so it might pay to wait a few months

I'm in the market for about three hard drives and I wondered why the
prices in the magazines looked so good compared to the actual retail
prices. The drives have trebled in price so not buying for the
foreseeable future.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose to dance
in the puddles (Jewish proverb).
DrTeeth
 
Posts: 970
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:58 am

Re: Can "Failed" Backups Be Safely Used?

Postby glenn » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:27 pm

Floods in Thailand — and an ensuing worldwide purchasing panic — have pushed the price of hard drives to nosebleed heights and left us all with fewer choices.
http://windowssecrets.com/newsletter/wh ... ve-prices/
glenn

DrTeeth wrote:On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:49:39 PST, just as I was about to take a herb,
mjnelson99 disturbed my reverie and wrote:

>I know hard drives have increased in price with the flooding
>in Thailand so it might pay to wait a few months

I'm in the market for about three hard drives and I wondered why the
prices in the magazines looked so good compared to the actual retail
prices. The drives have trebled in price so not buying for the
foreseeable future.
--

Cheers

DrT
______________________________
We may not be able to prevent the stormy times in
our lives; but we can always choose to dance
in the puddles (Jewish proverb).
glenn
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:12 am


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