Win10 build 1511

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Win10 build 1511

Postby Brian K » Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:33 pm

I had a single partition Win10 booting from BIBM. The build 1511 install resizes Win10 450 MB smaller and creates a Recovery partition. Can I move the Recovery files into the Win10 partition and delete the Recovery partition?
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Re: Win10 build 1511

Postby TeraByte Support(PP) » Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:37 pm

Most of the later Windows upgrades/updates do that now. You can move it, but it may move it again later.
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Re: Win10 build 1511

Postby Brian K » Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:06 pm

Point taken. I'll leave it. Thanks.
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Re: Win10 build 1511

Postby DrTeeth » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:36 am

On Thu, 12 Nov 2015 17:37:13 PST, just as I was about to take a herb,
TeraByte Support(PP) disturbed my reverie and wrote:

>Most of the later Windows upgrades/updates do that now. You can move it, but it may move it again later.

Will this cause problems where one has unlimited primary partitions?
--
Cheers,

DrT

"If you want to find out what is wrong
with democracy, spend five minutes with
the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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Re: Win10 build 1511

Postby TeraByte Support(PP) » Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:35 pm

It could if it creates the partition in "unallocated" space that actually contains a partition. Usually, it resizes the Windows partition smaller and then creates the new partition using that space. Either way, you may need to sort things out afterwards. I would definitely recommend a backup image prior to doing the major upgrades/updates.

Note that even if you have an existing System Reserved or WinRE partition the installer/updater may still make another larger partition for the new version. I've seen this even when the new files would fit on the old partition.
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Re: Win10 build 1511

Postby Bob Coleman » Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:29 pm

After reading the above, I made sure to have all four MBR slots filled in the Win10 boot item before installing the update. No new partition created. Would one have been if there had been an MBR slot for it? I have no idea.
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Re: Win10 build 1511

Postby SaliesBuzz » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:15 am

Having upgraded several machines to the latest Windows 10 v10586 1511, it would appear that the upgrade does create a 450mb recovery partition, irrespective of there being sufficient free space after the Windows 10 partition.
It appears to make no difference if one does this from the downloaded upgrade or from a mounted ISO.
Like most sensible people, it is easier to back up a Windows partition that contains everything (Boot, System, Primary etc), as this makes for easier recovery if there are any problems.
We have clients to whom we have recommended BootIT Bare Metal and Image for Windows, and we have had to help with the mess that this upgrade had caused.
It looks as though the upgrade will shrink the active in place upgrade partition by 450Mb and then try to write a 450Mb partition in the space it thinks it has created. Because it assumes that you have a simple MBR (or GPT), and appears to to know nothing about EMBR, it stamps all over the table, and you end up with the subsequent partition trashed. When using BootIT BM to delete the 450Mb partition you end with 447MB free space, which shows where the problem lies! The next partition is trashed and is not recoverable by BootIT BM, other than by a restore, hence the old mantra is true! Always backup before dealing with anything from Microsoft!
There may be some explanations as to why the upgrade behaves like this:
On one machine we upgraded, there was no additional partition created. This may be because there was already a recovery partition or that the recovery was "inside" the existing Windows 10 partition. It may be worth checking this before the upgrade using:
reagentc /info from an elevated command prompt.
Also, on a machine which only had the basic Windows 10, there was no additional partition created. Again, this may have been because the Recovery was already present "inside" the partition or:
With Pro versions and above (in Win 10 this is now just Enterprise), there is access to the bitlocker. This needs an additional partition to make it work. Even if it is not activated it may be that the Upgrade assumes you may activate it and goes ahead and stamps all over your EMBR.
On most "new" machines that come pre-loaded with Windows 10 (and latterly Windows 8.1), the standard OEM build no longer uses MBR but GPT based paritions. Because this allows for 128 partitions, it may be that the Windows 10 upgrade assumes you have a GPT based system, doesn't check this, and goes ahead and trashes your subsequent EMBR partition.
I have neither the time (or inclination!) to debug another Microsoft mess, although I suspect that converting to GPT may be the answer.
As long as one is aware of what it might do, you can use BootIT BM to sort the mess out.
To summarise- Before Upgrade:
Backup all your partitions, especially the one following the one you are upgrading.
Check your Windows version.
Check that Bitlocker is disabled.
After Upgrade:
Turn off Fastboot, (it is re-enabled).
Check that your other settings haven't been changed, particularly the privacy ones and the update rules that let you PC be used to update other computers.
On the plus side I would say the upgrade is worth doing. It appears to run quicker than the previous version, particularly on old Hardware.
Hope this helps someone who happens this way
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Re: Win10 build 1511

Postby TeraByte Support » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:23 am

Sounds like "they" (must be some newbies as MS) "tried" to make it safe but
messed up and went beyond the existing partitions (cylinder) alignment. It
is a bit more complicated than it seems when dealing with alignment.
Definitely a bug that should be reported to MS. In fact the whole thing
changing your partitioning should be considered a bug, you set it up the way
you want it and it undoes it, not a good thing (where's the media ?)



"SaliesBuzz" wrote in message news:10613@public.image...

Having upgraded several machines to the latest Windows 10 v10586 1511, it
would appear that the upgrade does create a 450mb recovery partition,
irrespective of there being sufficient free space after the Windows 10
partition.
It appears to make no difference if one does this from the downloaded
upgrade or from a mounted ISO.
Like most sensible people, it is easier to back up a Windows partition that
contains everything (Boot, System, Primary etc), as this makes for easier
recovery if there are any problems.
We have clients to whom we have recommended BootIT Bare Metal and Image for
Windows, and we have had to help with the mess that this upgrade had caused.
It looks as though the upgrade will shrink the active in place upgrade
partition by 450Mb and then try to write a 450Mb partition in the space it
thinks it has created. Because it assumes that you have a simple MBR (or
GPT), and appears to to know nothing about EMBR, it stamps all over the
table, and you end up with the subsequent partition trashed. When using
BootIT BM to delete the 450Mb partition you end with 447MB free space, which
shows where the problem lies! The next partition is trashed and is not
recoverable by BootIT BM, other than by a restore, hence the old mantra is
true! Always backup before dealing with anything from Microsoft!
There may be some explanations as to why the upgrade behaves like this:
On one machine we upgraded, there was no additional partition created. This
may be because there was already a recovery partition or that the recovery
was "inside" the existing Windows 10 partition. It may be worth checking
this before the upgrade using:
reagentc /info from an elevated command prompt.
Also, on a machine which only had the basic Windows 10, there was no
additional partition created. Again, this may have been because the Recovery
was already present "inside" the partition or:
With Pro versions and above (in Win 10 this is now just Enterprise), there
is access to the bitlocker. This needs an additional partition to make it
work. Even if it is not activated it may be that the Upgrade assumes you may
activate it and goes ahead and stamps all over your EMBR.
On most "new" machines that come pre-loaded with Windows 10 (and latterly
Windows 8.1), the standard OEM build no longer uses MBR but GPT based
paritions. Because this allows for 128 partitions, it may be that the
Windows 10 upgrade assumes you have a GPT based system, doesn't check this,
and goes ahead and trashes your subsequent EMBR partition.
I have neither the time (or inclination!) to debug another Microsoft mess,
although I suspect that converting to GPT may be the answer.
As long as one is aware of what it might do, you can use BootIT BM to sort
the mess out.
To summarise- Before Upgrade:
Backup all your partitions, especially the one following the one you are
upgrading.
Check your Windows version.
Check that Bitlocker is disabled.
After Upgrade:
Turn off Fastboot, (it is re-enabled).
Check that your other settings haven't been changed, particularly the
privacy ones and the update rules that let you PC be used to update other
computers.
On the plus side I would say the upgrade is worth doing. It appears to run
quicker than the previous version, particularly on old Hardware.
Hope this helps someone who happens this way

TeraByte Support
 
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Re: Win10 build 1511

Postby DrTeeth » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:11 am

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 06:15:08 PST, just as I was about to take a herb,
SaliesBuzz disturbed my reverie and wrote:

>Having upgraded several machines to the latest Windows 10 v10586 1511, it would appear that the upgrade does create a 450mb recovery partition, irrespective of there being sufficient free space after the Windows 10 partition.

I have a fully up-to-date Win 10 partition and no extra ones have been
created. I have unlimited primary partitions so having Win 10 create
an extra partition could cause major corruption.
--
Cheers,

DrT

"If you want to find out what is wrong
with democracy, spend five minutes with
the average voter." - Winston Churchill
DrTeeth
 
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Re: Win10 build 1511

Postby SaliesBuzz » Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:07 pm

For what it is worth I have posted details of this problem through "Windows Feedback".
For more years than I care to remember I paid Microsoft every year to be a "Technet Professional". Although the site is still active, it does not even have a forum for Windows 10!
As with most things these days you are removed totally from any contact with the supplier of your crap product/service. Endless call centres in foreign lands with people that can barely speak English, (assuming that is your native language).
I live in France, and can converse in either English or French, but trying to resolve a problem with almost anything technical usually involves speaking with someone who is speaking English or French as a second language, and, if you are lucky enough to get a written response by email, the result is laughable!
However, this is where we are in today's "high tech" world. I can totally understand why many people ask me "why do I need a computer/tablet/smartphone?" The irony is that is where all these companies want us! They can provide crap products/services, collect information about what we do with them and then sell that info to someone else, quite legally?
Thanks for the reply from Terabyte support, I rate your product and if I find out anything else about this disastrous upgrade I will post it here
SaliesBuzz
 
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