Upgrade BING to BIBM

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Upgrade BING to BIBM

Postby davewilk » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:39 pm

This question is about a different Win7 machine from my recent posts. But as with the other one, I want to dual boot Windows 7 and Windows 8. All the drives in this machine are SATA (including the DVD player), but I had to specify IDE mode in order to boot to DVD. So my plan is to install Windows 8 in IDE mode, and then convert it to AHCI (which is what I did with Windows 7).

This machine had BING installed before, so I thought I would upgrade to BIBM before I started.

There are two disks in this machine: one "boot" disk which contains the BING and Windows 7 partitions (plus another data partition and some free space), and one "data" disk which contains just one big partition, no free space.

I followed the instructions in the BIBM manual to upgrade from BING, but the system behaved as described when no BING was installed, not the upgrade procedure. And when I tell BIBM to locate a partition for itself, it says it cannot find or create one.

Rebooting to the BIBM disk and going into maintenance mode, I discover that HD0 is identified as my data disk, and HD1 as my boot disk. This does not happen if I boot to the installed BING; there HD0 is my boot disk and HD1 is my data disk. I assume that BIBM could not find or create a partition because it only looked on what it calls HD0, which is my data disk.

What should I do here to install BIBM? I really want to have all my bootable partitions on my "boot" disk. Does it matter if this disk is identified as HD1?
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Re: Upgrade BING to BIBM

Postby davewilk » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:28 am

I guess I am confused about what upgrading from BING to BIBM actually does. Does BIBM merely install itself in the partition previously occupied by BING, or does it actually inherit the boot menu (and perhaps other settings)?

When the upgrade does not seem to be working the way I expected, I am concerned about losing information. I suppose I can easily recreate the boot menu items (if necessary), but I am concerned about losing the partition information. Could that happen, or is the partition information all contained on the drives themselves (even when using unlimited primaries)?

I love BING/BIBM, but I am very unsure about what information is stored where.
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Re: Upgrade BING to BIBM

Postby TeraByte Support(PP) » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:44 pm

Normally, the drives will be seen in the same order as the BIOS boot order and the existing BING partition is updated to BIBM.

Are you booting BIBM from a CD or UFD? Do you see the same thing with both methods?

If it's easy, you could try disabling HD1 in the BIOS (or disconnect it) and see if you could then upgrade normally. You could also check the boot order when the drives being used are all connected (2 HDD & 1 UFD, for example). Depending on the BIOS the order may change when alternate boot devices are used or the BIOS Boot Menu is used (I've seen this more and more on newer systems).

The partition information is stored on the drives (whether limited or unlimited). If you need to do a clean BIBM install you're not going to lose them.

Have you considered installing Windows 8 from a UFD? It's normally much faster than a DVD and shouldn't require the AHCI conversion afterwards if it worked.
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Re: Upgrade BING to BIBM

Postby davewilk » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:35 am

I am doing all my installs (BIBM and Windows) from CD/DVD.

My experience is that the hard disks are not seen in the boot order, but rather in the order they are attached to the motherboard. In my case, the BIOS reports that my "boot" disk is on SATA 3, and my "data" disk on Sata 2. I think this is the cause of most of my problems (though the fact that I have to switch to IDE mode to boot to CD/DVD is a further complication).

Unfortunately it is a huge pain to open the case of this machine (it is my HTPC, and lives amid a tangle of wires behind my TV). However I was able to upgrade from BING to BIBM by disabling my data disk in the BIOS. Then I was able to install sacrificial Vista and then WIn8 to a new partition.

However, when I went to reinstate BIBM by booting to my BIBM CD, the Installation and Recovery window appears, but the "Reinstate" option is greyed out; only the "Upgrade" option is present. What should I do now?

It seems to me there must be something wrong with the way that BIBM is detecting a prior version of BING or BIBM. First of all, if there are two disks on the system and the existing BING or BIBM partition is not on HD0, then BIBM does not find it, so the Installation and Recovery windows does not appear. Secondly, even when the non-boot disk is disabled in the BIOS, BIBM does not see the existing installation as one that could be reinstated, only as one that could be upgraded.
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Re: Upgrade BING to BIBM

Postby davewilk » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:17 am

davewilk wrote:
> However, when I went to reinstate BIBM by booting to my BIBM CD, the
> Installation and Recovery window appears, but the "Reinstate"
> option is greyed out; only the "Upgrade" option is present. What
> should I do now?

Strangely enough, when I removed the BIBM CD and did Ctrl-Alt-Delete to reboot, the system now booted to the installed BIBM (as if I had performed the "Reinstate" procedure). Very confusing.

However, now I cannot boot into Windows 8 using BIBM. I get the "This partition does not contain an operating system..." message. I can boot into Windows 7 (without encountering the Windows boot menu).

What happened here? I have never had so much trouble multi-booting before. (Previously I always used BING.)
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Re: Upgrade BING to BIBM

Postby TeraByte Support(PP) » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:46 pm

The "Upgrade" option should be fine.

Have you verified that all the information is set correctly for the Windows 8 entry? Maybe things need adjusted due to changing the controller mode.

Also, does the "BCD Edit" option work for the Windows 8 partition (does it open up the BCD window and options)? Did Windows 8 install to the single partition (Vista) and not create a System Reserved partition or place the booting files on another partition?
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Re: Upgrade BING to BIBM

Postby davewilk » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:35 am

TeraByte Support(PP) wrote:
> The "Upgrade" option should be fine.
>
> Have you verified that all the information is set correctly for the Windows
> 8 entry? Maybe things need adjusted due to changing the controller mode.
>
> Also, does the "BCD Edit" option work for the Windows 8 partition
> (does it open up the BCD window and options)? Did Windows 8 install to the
> single partition (Vista) and not create a System Reserved partition or
> place the booting files on another partition?

Thanks for trying to help me.

I did everything in IDE mode and haven't switched it back to AHCI yet (so Win7 is booting in IDE mode).

Rather, I think I was so focused on getting my boot disk to be HD0 that I allowed my Win7 partition to be visible when I installed Vista and/or Win8. I installed Vista and then Win8 without reinstating BIBM (perhaps this was my mistake, but this is what I did on my other system, and it worked fine). Certainly, when Win8 was finally installed, the Win7 partition was visible, and I had to reassign the drive letters to get things the way I wanted. I was able to reboot Windows 8 and see that these drive letters were retained.

So (I thought) all I have to do is reinstate BIBM and hide the Win7 partition in the Win8 boot configuration, and all would be good. But, as I said before, after I did this the machine would not boot to Win8, only to Win7. I am really mad at myself, because one of the things I always liked about BING/BIBM was that it enabled each OS to be completely independent, with no interference from the convoluted Microsoft booting scheme.

Now, at least, my boot disk is HD0, even when the other Data disk is enabled in the BIOS. In the Windows 8 boot configuration, I currently have only the Windows 8 partition on HD0 visible.

If I go to Partition Work on HD0, there are no System Reserved partitions, either for Win7 or Win8. Just

BootIt partition
Windows 7
Windows 8
Unallocated space
Data (this is separate from the Data 2 on the second disk)

The second disk HD1 has just a single partition, Data 2. No System Reserved partition there either.

In Partition Work, if I select Windows 8 partition on HD0 and click BCD edit, it says "No BCD Store". If I do this with the Windows 7 partition, the BCD screen comes up. This suggests to me that the boot files for Win8 must be on the Windows 7 partition (Win8 did boot, before I reinstated BIBM). But when I boot into Windows 7, I do not get an option to boot into Win8 -- Win7 just boots normally.

Do you think there is any way to fix this, other than reinstalling (Vista and) Win8?
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Re: Upgrade BING to BIBM

Postby TeraByte Support(PP) » Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:16 am

You could try doing a boot repair on Windows 8. Setup the Windows 8 menu item in BIBM so that the Windows 8 partition is loaded into the MBR and the Windows 7 partition isn't (you should have this configured already). Do a simulated boot into Windows 8 to load the partition table (from the BIBM Boot Menu, hold down Shift while clicking the "Boot" button -- computer may beep; you can verify the Windows 8 partition has loaded by using "View MBR" in Partition Work). Then boot to the Windows 8 DVD and select the "Repair your computer" option, select the "Troubleshoot" option, select the "Advanced options" option, and finally select the "Command Prompt" option (do not select the "Automatic Repair" option -- see note below).

From the Command Prompt, run the following command to rebuild the BCD:
bootrec /rebuildbcd

It should find Windows 8 on C:. Type "Y" and press Enter to add it.

The "bootmgr" file should already exist in the root folder of the Windows 8 partition. If it doesn't, you can copy it there from the "\Windows\Boot\PCAT" folder.

Note: I've seen the automatic boot repair program of Windows 8 do some odd things. I wouldn't recommend running it to attempt the repair unless all other partitions are also loaded into the MBR. The repair may create a System Reserved partition and this could result in overwriting an existing partition if not loaded.
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Re: Upgrade BING to BIBM

Postby davewilk » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:26 pm

Paul:

Thanks for the suggestion. How does this method compare to booting to Windows 7 with the Windows 8 partition present, and then using bootsect.exe on the Windows 8 DVD to repair the boot sector on the Windows 8 partition, as described in the kb article

<http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=556>

using the translations

XP -> Win7
Win7 -> Win8

If I do this, is the correct command still

D:\boot\bootsect /nt60 F:

?
davewilk
 
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Re: Upgrade BING to BIBM

Postby TeraByte Support(PP) » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:28 pm

The command for fixing the boot sector is the same. You can also do it when booted to the Windows 8 DVD to rebuild the BCD file (drive letters will probably be different, though).

Fixing the boot sector and rebuilding the BCD are separate procedures so there's not really a comparision. I wouldn't try to rebuild the Windows 8 BCD while in Windows 7.
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