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BIBM Support for Microsoft Surface Book

Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:32 pm

Does BIBM work with a Microsoft Surface Book (Windows 10 installed)?

I know how to access the UEFI and turn off Secure Boot there and how to
turn off Fast Startup in Windows 10, both of which I understand are not
compatible with BIBM. However in this UEFI I did not see any setting
for enabling "legacy" support. Is there anything else to consider?

I would use a 4GB USB flash drive for the initial BIBM boot. My normal
procedure then would be to shrink the current Windows partition, use the
freed space to add some additional partitions for testing, etc., and
also install BIBM on the drive. I would turn off Limit Partitions since
I typically use more than four primaries on my PCs.

I don't yet know what surprises Microsoft might have put on the SSD in
their factory install, e.g., relocating the boot files out of the C:
drive.

I'm also looking for advice on the BIBM USB flash drive configuration
for use with a Surface Book. Are the MakeDisk USB/SD defaults OK?

USB Layout: Partition - MBR FAT/FAT32 partition
Geometry Calculation Method: Default - Use Device

Or are there better choices for a Surface Book?

I wanted to ask here before buying another BIBM copy, but then finding
it could not be used with Surface Book.

Re: BIBM Support for Microsoft Surface Book

Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:24 pm

The pro uses the Intel processor but it would need to boot outside of UEFI
mode. Many tablets can't do that. I can't tell you if your surface would
support it. You can use the trial to test booting the UFD.


"jknauth" wrote in message news:10795@public.bootitbm...

Does BIBM work with a Microsoft Surface Book (Windows 10 installed)?

I know how to access the UEFI and turn off Secure Boot there and how to
turn off Fast Startup in Windows 10, both of which I understand are not
compatible with BIBM. However in this UEFI I did not see any setting
for enabling "legacy" support. Is there anything else to consider?

I would use a 4GB USB flash drive for the initial BIBM boot. My normal
procedure then would be to shrink the current Windows partition, use the
freed space to add some additional partitions for testing, etc., and
also install BIBM on the drive. I would turn off Limit Partitions since
I typically use more than four primaries on my PCs.

I don't yet know what surprises Microsoft might have put on the SSD in
their factory install, e.g., relocating the boot files out of the C:
drive.

I'm also looking for advice on the BIBM USB flash drive configuration
for use with a Surface Book. Are the MakeDisk USB/SD defaults OK?

USB Layout: Partition - MBR FAT/FAT32 partition
Geometry Calculation Method: Default - Use Device

Or are there better choices for a Surface Book?

I wanted to ask here before buying another BIBM copy, but then finding
it could not be used with Surface Book.

Re: BIBM Support for Microsoft Surface Book

Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:30 pm

jknauth,

If you have a BIBM license you can use an IFL boot disk (eg UFD) to do your partitioning. Partition Work is a component of the IFL boot disk. This disk does boot in UEFI mode so no BIOS editing is needed.

Edit... Does it have a Atom processor? If so there could be a problem with IFL.

Re: BIBM Support for Microsoft Surface Book

Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:56 am

UPDATE (maybe this info will be of use to someone): I have not been
successful with using BIBM on my Microsoft Surface Book. I first tried
booting a USB BIBM thumb drive. I tried four different configurations:

USB Layout: Partition - MBR FAT/FAT32 Partition
USB Layout: Normal - Raw Boot Image
USB Layout: No Partition - FAT/FAT32 Volume
USB Layout: Partition - MBR FAT/FAT32 Partition (Int13h Extensions)

all while using

Geometry Calculation Method: Default - Use Device

I had previously disabled Secure Boot under UEFI. To test such a BIBM
thumb drive, I brought up the UEFI Boot Configuration screen and swiped
the USB entry. I clicked the resulting dialog to say I wanted to boot
the USB device. The LED on the USB drive flickered for several seconds,
then usually the main UEFI screen reappeared. In one case after the
thumb drive LED flickering, Windows 10 booted. In no case did I get any
BIBM dialog, e.g., to allow running or installing BIBM.

I tested one of these BIBM thumb drives on another PC, one that used
BIOS. There the BIBM dialog was displayed properly, so the thumb drive
was not at fault in any of this.

I next tried using a USB external DVD drive with a BIBM CD. I got the
same results. After UEFI was told to boot that USB drive, the drive
light flickered a few seconds and then the main UEFI screen was
displayed, not the BIBM dialog.

I imagine the base problem is that legacy BIOS support is not available
in this Microsoft UEFI. As mentioned in my first post, there was no
explicit UEFI setting to revert to "legacy", which was a bad sign.

Since I cannot get BIBM working on the Surface Book, I have re-enabled
Secure Boot in UEFI. I am now using the "Backup and Restore (Windows
7)" facility from the Windows 10 Control Panel. That seems to back up a
system image to an external hard drive OK (I hope). I have now created
a number of Surface Book backups with it. I don't want to test a
restore (until I am forced to), given that I am not able to create my
normal BIBM environment of more than four primary partitions, e.g., to
use for testing such things as a system image restore to a test
partition.

The lack of BIBM's flexible multiboot and support for greater than four
primaries are the main things I am missing. But I can live with that
for the Surface Book, which is not my main PC. Although this loss of
"legacy" is not really a surprise for Microsoft hardware, I hope this is
not the wave of the future for all future PCs unless BIBM can be made to
handle it. Jeff

Re: BIBM Support for Microsoft Surface Book

Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:20 pm

jknauth,

Can you boot an IFL UFD? You don't need to disable Secure Boot.

Re: BIBM Support for Microsoft Surface Book

Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:44 pm

Thanks, Brian. I have given IFL a try, but it didn't work too well, at
least not in the configuration I used. I downloaded a trial version of
IFL and used Makedisk to create a bootable USB thumbdrive. I chose
Simple and used the defaults for everything, including the USB Layout
and Geometry Calculation Method.

I then started UEFI on the Surface Book. I left Secure Boot enabled
(with the default "Microsoft only" setting). When I booted the UFD from
within UEFI, I got the same scenario of LED flickering on the thumb
drive and then Windows booting -- no IFL. Test 1 failure.

The Secure Boot setting I had used was the "Microsoft only" one. (I
suspected that might not work, but wanted to try it to minimize the
number of things I had to change each time.) There is an intermediate
setting of "Microsoft & 3rd party CA" that supposedly lets some things
boot. Then there is a "None" setting. I decided to go straight to
"None", figuring if that didn't work the intermediate Secure Boot
setting would not work either.

After setting Secure Boot to "None", I then used UEFI to boot the thumb
drive again. This time Linux booted. At least I think it did. The
screen displayed some *TINY* text in the upper left corner. It was in
1pt font size or a small percentage of even that (about a micron per
letter) -- hardly visible. After a few lines were displayed, the screen
went totally black. And it stayed black. No cursor. No reaction to
mouse or keys. Even the power button seemed dead. I thought I had just
produced a flagstone (my term for a Surface Book brick).

Fortunately holding down Vol+ and Power for a long time (a Surface Book
recovery trick) eventually resurrected the PC. I turned on the Secure
Boot default setting and was able to boot Windows.

One problem with all this testing is that I have to keep reentering the
48-digit BitLocker key. Apparently UEFI/Windows feels that any time
such a Secure Boot change is made, the SSD disk access needs to be
reauthorized.

Maybe some other USB choices in Makedisk would work better. For now I
am holding off on further testing -- the near-flagstone situation has made
me somewhat leery. IFL would have given me a redundant backup system in
case the Windows Backup and Recovery (Windows 7) could not do a restore.
That would be good. However I still would be missing the flexible
multiboot and "greater than four primaries" capabilities I had with
BIBM. Jeff

Re: BIBM Support for Microsoft Surface Book

Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:53 pm

You would need to use: Microsoft & 3rd party CA

MS provides the 3rd party CA but doesn't allow it to work with the surface
when in MS mode.

Many people use IFL on the surface pro, perhaps you need a different video
mode for the GUI version or try using the CUI version.

You can also of course use the TBWinRE/TBWinPE boot media to run Image for
Windows.


"jknauth" wrote in message news:10876@public.bootitbm...

Thanks, Brian. I have given IFL a try, but it didn't work too well, at
least not in the configuration I used. I downloaded a trial version of
IFL and used Makedisk to create a bootable USB thumbdrive. I chose
Simple and used the defaults for everything, including the USB Layout
and Geometry Calculation Method.

I then started UEFI on the Surface Book. I left Secure Boot enabled
(with the default "Microsoft only" setting). When I booted the UFD from
within UEFI, I got the same scenario of LED flickering on the thumb
drive and then Windows booting -- no IFL. Test 1 failure.

The Secure Boot setting I had used was the "Microsoft only" one. (I
suspected that might not work, but wanted to try it to minimize the
number of things I had to change each time.) There is an intermediate
setting of "Microsoft & 3rd party CA" that supposedly lets some things
boot. Then there is a "None" setting. I decided to go straight to
"None", figuring if that didn't work the intermediate Secure Boot
setting would not work either.

After setting Secure Boot to "None", I then used UEFI to boot the thumb
drive again. This time Linux booted. At least I think it did. The
screen displayed some *TINY* text in the upper left corner. It was in
1pt font size or a small percentage of even that (about a micron per
letter) -- hardly visible. After a few lines were displayed, the screen
went totally black. And it stayed black. No cursor. No reaction to
mouse or keys. Even the power button seemed dead. I thought I had just
produced a flagstone (my term for a Surface Book brick).

Fortunately holding down Vol+ and Power for a long time (a Surface Book
recovery trick) eventually resurrected the PC. I turned on the Secure
Boot default setting and was able to boot Windows.

One problem with all this testing is that I have to keep reentering the
48-digit BitLocker key. Apparently UEFI/Windows feels that any time
such a Secure Boot change is made, the SSD disk access needs to be
reauthorized.

Maybe some other USB choices in Makedisk would work better. For now I
am holding off on further testing -- the near-flagstone situation has made
me somewhat leery. IFL would have given me a redundant backup system in
case the Windows Backup and Recovery (Windows 7) could not do a restore.
That would be good. However I still would be missing the flexible
multiboot and "greater than four primaries" capabilities I had with
BIBM. Jeff

Re: BIBM Support for Microsoft Surface Book

Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:35 pm

It isn't very reassuring to learn that after 2 years TBU hasn't posted a FAQ or step-by-step guide on how to get BIBM to work on a main stream device like the Surface Book. Not everyone has the time and energy to try this and try that on something that can't even get to the point of loading properly.

Is there anyone out there that can please share some direction on exactly what to do?

EDIT: BTW, i tired the USB in another PC and it booted in BIBM.
Last edited by CaptainKen on Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: BIBM Support for Microsoft Surface Book

Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:24 pm

I tried all Video Modes with these settings, but the Surface Book 2 just boots straight into Windows.
UEFI Secure Boot: "Microsoft & 3rd party CA"
USB Layout: Partition - MBR FAT/FAT32 Partition
Geometry Calculation Method: Default - Use Device

Re: BIBM Support for Microsoft Surface Book

Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:39 pm

I just tried IFL

The screen displayed some *TINY* text in the upper left corner. Keyboard icon lower right corner. It was in 1pt font size or so. After a few lines were displayed, the screen went totally black. And it stayed black. No cursor. No reaction to mouse or keys. I tried each of the option displayed in tiny text, but nothing.
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